C-FLEX Pros/Cons? - APAP Without?

I posted yesterday that I can get an older Remstar APAP without C-FLEX for a reasonably low price. RG assured me that I can get all the data off this device with Encore Pro and MyEncore.

I slept last night without C-FLEX on my Remstar Pro (not the 2 unfortunately). I didn't seem to have any real trouble without it although it was different. Hard to say exactly how it was different but it was different.

If I can tolerate 9cm without C-FLEX what other downsides are there, if any?

Aerophagia? Seems to me I saw some references to Aerophagia without C-FLEX and it did feel a little bit like there was more air trapped behind my taped lips.

SB

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): C-FLEX, Encore Pro, APAP, aerophagia

if you think about it, if your pressure is under 10cm, cflex doesn't help all that much. For example, if your pressure is 8 or 9cm and you use a setting of 3 so it drops to 5 or 6cm on exhale.

with the non-cflex Remstar auto, if set to say 6cm to 11cm range. The machine will spend the most time at the 6cm setting which is very easy to breathe against.

The non-cflex Remstar auto sorta backs off pressure on exhale, it like the 420E breathes with you although the cflex machine has a more noticeable relief on exhale if your pressure is higher.

Bottom line: at your pressure you probably won't notice any difference going from a cflex machine at 9cm to the auto. I would set your auto at 6cm to 11cm , you may have to increase from the 6cm if you find yourself starving for air.

And as RG mentioned the auto records all data just like the cflex model with both EncorePro and Derek's software. I have 2 of the older Remstar auto's, I got the 2nd by exchanging it for a dead 420E. But I'm still using the first 5yr old model I purchased. I also have a Pro w/cflex, I use it in my RV.

Anonymous wrote:if you think about it, if your pressure is under 10cm, cflex doesn't help all that much. For example, if your pressure is 8 or 9cm and you use a setting of 3 so it drops to 5 or 6cm on exhale.

Actually, the Cflex setting is not in pressure units. Each setting (1, 2 or 3) is arbitrary and the amount and duration of pressure reduction at the beginning of exhalation is proportional to the Cflex setting and the forcefulness of the exhale.

Conversely, Resmed's EPR feature is calibrated in pressure units (1cm, 2cm or 3cm) and is in effect for the entire exhalation period.

Brent Hutto wrote:

Actually, the Cflex setting is not in pressure units. Each setting (1, 2 or 3) is arbitrary and the amount and duration of pressure reduction at the beginning of exhalation is proportional to the Cflex setting and the forcefulness of the exhale.

YOU need to go read the Respironics litrature it clearly shows 1 cm per setting. Sometimes I think you just like to hear yourself rattle with the last word anyway.

Guest - please login, who are you?

That being said I sort of agree with what you have to say but I do not agree with your ANONYMOUSand gratuitious slam at Brent. Regardless of your opinion, true or not, Flames have no place here, this is a nice bunch of folks.

Also, the discussion on the CPAP.COM site that explains the differences between EPR and C-FLEX contradicts your contention about cm units on the C-FLEX. If that is incorrect then I recommend you go pick a fight with them.

But, thanks for your opinion about its relative impact at my pressure settings and the implied usefulness of the cheap APAP - it has merit.

SB

We've had this discussion here before. While it's easy to conclude that C-flex settings correspond with 1 cm pressure drops, that is not the case. One can do a search on the subject matter in prior posts about a month ago and find the detailed explanations.

Regards,
Bill

From the Respironics' C-Flex literature:

The amount of pressure relief delivered by a unit equipped with C-Flex is based on the patient’s expiratory flow and the C-Flex setting. As you move through the settings, the amount of variable relief increases. This allows the patient to choose what they feel is the right level of pressure relief at exhalation –which makes therapy more comfortable.

So Brent Hutto is correct. It is not a distinct 1 cm drop per setting because it is based on the setting and on the force of the patient's exhalation.

Brent described it correctly.

In this thread WillSucceed also describes what C-Flex does (and doesn't) do.

Feb 20, 2006 subject: Relationship between C-Flex setting & sleep disturb. det

Snoozin' Bluezzz wrote:Guest - please login, who are you?

That being said I sort of agree with what you have to say but I do not agree with your ANONYMOUSand gratuitious slam at Brent. Regardless of your opinion, true or not, Flames have no place here, this is a nice bunch of folks.

Also, the discussion on the CPAP.COM site that explains the differences between EPR and C-FLEX contradicts your contention about cm units on the C-FLEX. If that is incorrect then I recommend you go pick a fight with them.

But, thanks for your opinion about its relative impact at my pressure settings and the implied usefulness of the cheap APAP - it has merit.

SB

Snoozin'
That was a great reaction!

O.

Rested Gal - I can't seem to figure out the PM very well but would like to get email address to you - I had a nightmare of a night last night and could sure use your advice - tell me on this forum how to get email address to you via pm

I'll be sitting here at computer awaiting your reply...

Miserable in Wyoming this pm
Ellen

so your saying Snoozin' Bluezzz is not anonymous and that is your real name?

if the shoe fits...

Anonymous wrote:Brent Hutto wrote:

Actually, the Cflex setting is not in pressure units. Each setting (1, 2 or 3) is arbitrary and the amount and duration of pressure reduction at the beginning of exhalation is proportional to the Cflex setting and the forcefulness of the exhale.

YOU need to go read the Respironics litrature it clearly shows 1 cm per setting. Sometimes I think you just like to hear yourself rattle with the last word anyway.

Friend, I was not trying to provoke an argument. As much as I do indeed enjoy hearing myself rattle...in this case I was simply correcting your incorrect statement about Cflex.

Now you go ahead and have the last word. Really, I insist.

Peace.

So sorry. I thought I was logged in. I'm the one who posted:

Anonymous wrote:From the Respironics' C-Flex literature:

The amount of pressure relief delivered by a unit equipped with C-Flex is based on the patient’s expiratory flow and the C-Flex setting. As you move through the settings, the amount of variable relief increases. This allows the patient to choose what they feel is the right level of pressure relief at exhalation –which makes therapy more comfortable.

So Brent Hutto is correct. It is not a distinct 1 cm drop per setting because it is based on the setting and on the force of the patient's exhalation.

I found an even clearer explanation in the following Q and A with Respironics' Jeff Maglin, Product Manager, CPAP, C-Flex and Humidification and Shawn Trautman, Product Manager, REMstar Auto and Encore Pro.

Q: What is the relative decrease in pressure during the C-Flex phase (exhalation) of operation?

A: C-Flex offers variable pressure relief on a breath by breath basis with the aid of our patented Digital Auto-Trak technology. Digital Auto-Trak detects the transition point between inhalation and exhalation while accounting for system leak. C-Flex provides pressure relief at the beginning of exhalation based on the patient’s respiratory flow and the C-Flex setting selected (1, 2, 3). The patient is returned to set pressure by the end of exhalation.

Many believe that the C-Flex setting is equivalent to the actual pressure relief (e.g., C-Flex Setting of 1 = 1 cm H2O pressure). This is not correct.

To see the entire Q and A with the Respironics Product Managers, here's the link:

viewArticle/Respironics-Remstar-Auto-Pr ... rview.html

ARRRRRRRRRRGH!!!!!!!

That was me saying that we me. (And just in case it does it again, this is neversleeps.)

HELP - Last night was night #3 - APAP with CFlex and supplemental oxygen.
Adjusted Ultra Mirage 11 full face mask so it fit comfortably when first lay down to sleep. Went to sleep fine, but as soon as pressure went up (to what I do not know - machine is set at 4 min 20 max and I don't have way to read pressures yet) BUT when pressure went what I assume is highest I required, the mask would leak (and I'm talking more like a blow out!!) I
would automatically tighten the head gear to stop the leak - this was after I move the mask around some on face to stop leak, which did not work. Pretty soon mask was so tight the silicon pads dug into my forehead and the rest was so tight it pulled on my already injured neck - still was able to get back to sleep only to have this happen over, and over, and over.................until after 2 hours of sleep and 2 1/2 hours fighting mask, I finally had to take the mask off and sleep with just oxygen mask like I did prior to APAP...........I'm getting mighty growly with what little sleep I am getting and am not functional during day due to sleepless and miserable night. I MUST make this APAP work.......
any ideas????????????

Not a good day for me.

Could sure use suggestions. Called DME and "they just don't know what to tell me"

Do you think if I moved minimum pressure to 7-8 and adjusted mask to that pressure before falling asleep it would help??

Desperate in Wyoming