mouth tape problems

Hi All,

First a big *hello* to anyone who still remembers me A big hello to all the new people too
I haven't been around in a long time due to other health issues, but do terribly miss this group. Second, I just had my 5 year anniversary on CPAP!!! That probably calls for a separate post.

So my problem: for all these 5 years I've been happily using the Activa + the 3M micropore mouth tape. But I recently lost some weight (yay) and just like (I think) Dreamstalker had, I can no longer keep the seal with my tongue!!! So my tape has been blowing out EVERY NIGHT all week. I am getting so sleep deprived. I wake up in my own drool. I've tried double and triple taping, but that's not working. I also tried some of the more plastic-like tape from 3M, but that was terrible on my face. I suspect the summer heat is also making me sweat and unsticks the tape. But the real problem is the inability to keep the tongue seal.

Any ideas??? Chinstraps typically have not worked for me. Perhaps a mouth/cheek-strap laterally across my face??

DreamStalker - if I remember correctly you eventually had to go the FFM route to solve this problem?

I've tried nearly every FFM out there, but I cannot use any of them because of my receding chin, I get terrible leaks everywhere. Even the Quattro FX was working for a couple of nights but it's not reliable enough. I don't have enough "face grease" to keep it in place and face cream only works so well.

Gah, help oh wonderful clever cpappers

thanks
xx
echo

It's too bad that we no longer have the mask trial program for sure. Have you considered trying a hybrid mask like the Mirage Liberty or Innomed? I also have success with the papcap with chinstrap and it helps but sometimes still blow exhaust air through my lips but the tape fixed that. It never occurred to me that years down the road with successful therapy, that this kind of problem could raise its ugly head. Just assumed that I've found my mask and setup and all is good to go. Good luck to you and let us know when you find the fix.

Good to "see" ya, echo! Forget YOU? Yeah, right!!

It took a dentist-made mouthpiece to train me to keep my mouth shut with no leaks overnight.

Now when I go to bed, I automatically jut my jaw forward as my tongue makes the seal.

Back when I used to use a stretchy headband as a makeshift chin strap, I had to position it so that it pushed up on the flesh of my chin just a bit so that my bottom lip was pushed up slightly.

If I know you, you WILL find the new answer for yourself, and soon!

Again, welcome back.

echo wrote:.... Perhaps a mouth/cheek-strap laterally across my face??...

Before I settled on my current taping/PapCap configuration, I had luck using the self-stick 2-inch "Ace Bandage". I actually bought the cheaper generic local drug store brand. I wrapped a couple of revolutions laterally across my face, cut and fastened together with large safety pins. It also helped prevent chipmunk cheeks.

Good luck, Earl

Sometimes I sleep too much on one side and a little drool will loosen one side of my tape. It's a real drag to pull off all your original tape in the middle of the night and start all over. For that you have to turn on a light, which tends to wake one up completely.

Here's something I found that works great: Keep a small bottle of alcohol and some paper towels handy where you can reach them easily without turning on a light. Next, pull up the wet tape, then using a small amount of alcohol and paper towel, clean under the area of the loose tape, plus an adjacent patch of skin. Dry the old tape and your skin by dabbing with a piece of dry fresh paper towel (tissues don't work very well because they leave behind too much lint). This repair doesn't have to be perfectly dry, just enough to get the original tape to stick back down in a reasonable way. Finally, rip a fresh piece of tape off your roll that's about an inch long and secure your old loose tape to an a adjacent fresh patch of skin. This is simply a patch job and for me takes something like two minutes and I can do it in complete darkness... before you know it you'll be back to sleep in no time.

EDIT: a small addendum. I like to put a 1/8" or 1/4" slit in the middle of the tape. I sometimes get a puff of escaping air past my tongue and this little slit lets it pass thru the tape without a problem. Also, if the electricity goes off the slit in the tape in conjunction with the exhaust vent in my nasal pillows allows me to breathe comfortably until I wake up.

I use Nexcare Gentle Paper Tape 2" wide...fold both ends over for easy removal....put chapstick on my lips before putting on the tape....then I put my chin strap on so that the top part of the strap that goes over your chin is just under your bottom lip, so it kind of pushes your lip up....and viola! It works for me! No more leaks!

Good luck....Janice

My new routine:

(I'm trying to get rid of chin straps altogether.)

Take two 4" long strips of 3M micropore (I think mine is 1.5" wide) tape and overlap slightly, length-wise. Fold the short ends over on themselves slightly, to form tabs. Pout lower lip out, so it juts slightly over top lip (this pushes your jaw forward). Secure with tape, smoothing from the bottom up, to keep pressure on that bottom lip and keep it over the top lip just a bit. Take a loose generic ace bandage and tie over the tape, around the back of your head, LOOSELY, This is just my insurance policy to keep the tape in place. Mask up, and go to sleep.

I remove the tape with moisturizer in the morning, and voila, no leaks.

I'm working on perfecting my taping methods because chin straps are ROUGH on my piercings. It's funny, the mask doesn't hurt them at all, but that damned chin strap? A menace.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I love the collective wisdom of this group!!

SleepingDVader wrote:It's too bad that we no longer have the mask trial program for sure. Have you considered trying a hybrid mask like the Mirage Liberty or Innomed? I also have success with the papcap with chinstrap and it helps but sometimes still blow exhaust air through my lips but the tape fixed that.

Vader - I've tried all 2 hybrids, the nose things give me problems. The Hybrid is still better than the Liberty, as the Liberty gives me terrible chipmunk cheeks. Why can't they just make the Activa in a FFM?? I've been saying it for YEARS!
So your papcap comment made me think, that I have one too! So I've been using my papcap now for a few nights - problem solved! YAY! Thanks!!

SleepingDVader wrote:It never occurred to me that years down the road with successful therapy, that this kind of problem could raise its ugly head. Just assumed that I've found my mask and setup and all is good to go. Good luck to you and let us know when you find the fix.

Well, that's one of the reasons why we say that people should have machines with Data Capability - so you can monitor any changes in the future. Don't get too discouraged once you get past the initial cpap-adjustment phase (we should have a name for that ), it's just small tweaks here and there. I did build up quite an arsenal of masks, chinstraps, padacheek covers, the ear-gum things, hose management systems, and so on, so it's just a matter of dipping back into the stash now and then.

What I did read quite a few times here is that masks or other setups which never worked in the past, have magically started working later at some point. So it's good to get wild and mix things up sometimes.

jnk wrote:Good to "see" ya, echo! Forget YOU? Yeah, right!!

Likewise, zen master

jnk wrote: It took a dentist-made mouthpiece to train me to keep my mouth shut with no leaks overnight.

Now when I go to bed, I automatically jut my jaw forward as my tongue makes the seal.

Back when I used to use a stretchy headband as a makeshift chin strap, I had to position it so that it pushed up on the flesh of my chin just a bit so that my bottom lip was pushed up slightly.

If I know you, you WILL find the new answer for yourself, and soon!

Again, welcome back.

Very cool that the mouthpiece is working for you. I'm still curious about the mandible-advancing mouthpieces, but my jaw is so receded, I think it would hurt like &#!@.

I missed your enthusiasm and positive thinking sir

poppi2 wrote:Before I settled on my current taping/PapCap configuration, I had luck using the self-stick 2-inch "Ace Bandage". I actually bought the cheaper generic local drug store brand. I wrapped a couple of revolutions laterally across my face, cut and fastened together with large safety pins. It also helped prevent chipmunk cheeks.
Good luck, Earl

I think I saw a picture of that once somewhere That's actually exactly what I was thinking! I might try that once if I get annoyed sufficiently with the papcap.

Sir NoddinOff wrote:Sometimes I sleep too much on one side and a little drool will loosen one side of my tape. It's a real drag to pull off all your original tape in the middle of the night and start all over. For that you have to turn on a light, which tends to wake one up completely. Here's something I found that works great: <snip>

Great idea!! My problem is that I am sooooo drowsy when this happens, and I;m not really fully awake - it's more like a dream state, so I have zero actual thinking ability. If I could even just seal that piece off without the cleaning bit, but alas, I am not awake enough to even thinking of that!

jwerley wrote:I use Nexcare Gentle Paper Tape 2" wide...fold both ends over for easy removal....put chapstick on my lips before putting on the tape....then I put my chin strap on so that the top part of the strap that goes over your chin is just under your bottom lip, so it kind of pushes your lip up....and viola! It works for me! No more leaks!

Thanks Janice, that's exactly how I've been doing it, and now with the papcap it works great.

the_nap_ster wrote:My new routine:

(I'm trying to get rid of chin straps altogether.)

Take two 4" long strips of 3M micropore (I think mine is 1.5" wide) tape and overlap slightly, length-wise. Fold the short ends over on themselves slightly, to form tabs. Pout lower lip out, so it juts slightly over top lip (this pushes your jaw forward). Secure with tape, smoothing from the bottom up, to keep pressure on that bottom lip and keep it over the top lip just a bit. Take a loose generic ace bandage and tie over the tape, around the back of your head, LOOSELY, This is just my insurance policy to keep the tape in place. Mask up, and go to sleep.

Hi Nap_ster, I agree chinstraps are darned annoying. I have tried the two-strip version as well, but I still seem to be blowing that out - even with FOUR strips (two across my mouth, one vertically on each side near the corners of my mouth, where the leaking usually begins). My jaw must be dropping a lot! for the leaking to get so bad. I'm starting to think the ace bandage around my head laterally won't actually work because of the jaw dropping. With the pap-cap, it all seems very stable now.

I'm glad the Pap Cap seems to be doing the trick!

As an experiment last night, I tried just tape, no ace bandage over it. And while I didn't have any loss of tape/blowouts, I did have chipmunk cheeks all night, resulting in a HORRIBLE night of sleep. Lesson learned: that ace bandage applying just a bit of pressure does big things for me. For what it's worth!

I had that same problem Napster....trying to get by with just the tape...because I also hate the chin strap...but had to get up and put it on!!

Whatever you do to keep your mouth closed at night, please exercise due care and attention. It can be dangerous if overdone. Personally, I have gone from a pillow system to a nosebag to a full face mask and have several Quattro's that I rotate before washing them and disinfecting with Control III (same as the hospitals use and it is cheap enough). Make sure your skin is clean and dry. Make sure your mask is clean and dry (I use a wet wipe on mine every morning). I only went from the nosebags to the FFM as it was more comfy than tape.

Hi toronto, thanks for the reminder! I do remember your story. I hope you are well!

I am pretty sick of the taping thing, to be honest. It does freak me out now and then too, especially once or twice when I've accidentally choked on my own spit in the middle of the night.... I think it's time for me to accept that a FFM is the only permanent solution for me. Perhaps with the pap-cap, I can keep the #!@&@# thing from leaking all night. In the past it's been a bit of hit and miss, and I've tried almost all of the FFMs out there, in fact, I may have tried them ALL (some in various sizes )!

I have had good success with folding a bandana and tying it around my head aver my mouth. I fold it over several times and it may seem strange but it works as well as taping did for me. With the Swift FX with the ear straps, I'm pretty happy not to have anything around the top of my head.

echo congrats on your weight loss. When I place tape over my mouth I will purse my lips inward so none of the tape is touching my lips. This will insure moisture from getting on the tape which will loosen the tape. I also use this chin strap which is very comfortable.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... white.html

Good luck!

Only thing I've found to work for me is using 3" micropore in a ~6-8" strip. When applying it, I turn my lips inward so that inward pressure generates some seal on its own, kind of like pursing it. I also press the tape in after applying it to get more stick.

It sucks, but I haven't found anything better yet.