My experience with Provent

Quick report. I took 50mg of Trazodone last night. AHI was lowest I've EVER had. 2.03. CA 1.80. OA .23. A 0.00. H 0.00!!!! Leaks 3.60 max. Median/95% ZERO. Might be onto something. Only question now, is whether I take it during my study tomorrow night, or Lunesta.

Very interesting...

Z

Zzzzzzzzzzz... wrote:Quick report. I took 50mg of Trazodone last night. AHI was lowest I've EVER had. 2.03. CA 1.80. OA .23. A 0.00. H 0.00!!!! Leaks 3.60 max. Median/95% ZERO. Might be onto something.

One night does not a trend make.

Only question now, is whether I take it during my study tomorrow night, or Lunesta.

Don't you want to take something that interferes least with your sleep architecture and breathing so that the results will accurately portray whatever problems you have? If Trazadone really does affect your centrals, and you take it on the study, you will be stuck taking it forever because your results will only generalize to nights on Trazadone.

SleepingUgly wrote:
Don't you want to take something that interferes least with your sleep architecture and breathing so that the results will accurately portray whatever problems you have? If Trazadone really does affect your centrals, and you take it on the study, you will be stuck taking it forever because your results will only generalize to nights on Trazadone.

I agree.

I'm coming to the conclusion that a seal on my mouth is necessary, but not sufficient. Last night I was doing OK Provent-wise, but woke up and couldn't get back to sleep for a couple of hours. My chinstrap that covers my mouth was making me hot and was slipping forward on my head and otherwise annoying me, so I switched to a regular chinstrap. Mistake. When I did eventually fall asleep, I kept waking up to air escaping my lips. This is the same problem I have with CPAP. I can't seem to keep my mouth shut! I think it's a metaphorical symptom.... Hmmm, in what other ways does my inability to keep my mouth shut cause me problems...

I have a feeling that people who either don't need a chinstrap with CPAP or manage with a regular chinstrap have a better crack at Provent success than those who have to tape + use a chinstrap or otherwise cover their mouth.

I need Rapoport or someone to explain to me why someone WOULD keep their mouth shut in the presence of such resistance to exhale?! On the other hand, I'm noticing at times when I'm awake, I am sometimes exhaling through the nose, so that gives me hope I might learn to do it, although I'm becoming resigned to the notion that I'll have to keep my mouth covered... If only there was a better way.

SleepingUgly wrote:I have a feeling that people who either don't need a chinstrap with CPAP or manage with a regular chinstrap have a better crack at Provent success than those who have to tape + use a chinstrap or otherwise cover their mouth.

I wish there were some way to get the Provent manufacturer to pay attention to this idea and do research on it.

The original use-case for Provent was people who cannot use xPAP for one reason or another, and for whom Proven is a last resort and should be tried anyway.

There are also people like myself who can use, and get good results with xPAP, but whose doctors consider Provent, in each individual case, a medically reasonable alternative for travel and as a back-up. For people in that situation, even inexact predictors of Provent success would be extremely useful.

Better luck keeping my mouth shut last night, this time using the Deluxe chinstrap over my mouth:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/deluxe ... hleak.html

I wonder why mine didn't come with two straps, like in the picture...Well, mine is the Respironics version of that.

Also, my jaw is a little sore. I thought this one purported to apply vertical pressure and not pull the jaw back, but I'm not finding that now.

SleepingUgly wrote:Better luck keeping my mouth shut last night, this time using the Deluxe chinstrap over my mouth:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/deluxe ... hleak.html

I wonder why mine didn't come with two straps, like in the picture...Well, mine is the Respironics version of that.

Also, my jaw is a little sore. I thought this one purported to apply vertical pressure and not pull the jaw back, but I'm not finding that now.

Try this approach: In the pic below the chinstrap serves the purpose of keeping the jaw stationary with straps located in front of your ears rather than on them or behind them to mitigate force vectors from pulling your jaw back. You can use another separate strap with much less tension to hold you lips closed and prevent the flapping lips in the wind syndrome (you can use ACE bandage material or old pantyhose) yet still allows you to breath through you mouth when necessary. Placing the vertical strap over the horizontal strap helps keep the horizontal strap in place. This approach really does work for people having mouth leak issues.

That's a Papcap with what going over the mouth?

Last night I accidentally forgot to use rubbing alcohol on my nose before adhering the Provent, and realized after I'd already stuck it on. I hoped for the best, and went to sleep with a chinstrap over my mouth (primarily tolerable due to Ambien, I'd guess). I woke up at 4am thinking, "Wow, this is going awesome!" and then realized the Provent had fallen off somewhere in my bed. I got up, put another pair on, then couldn't sleep for two hours. Eventually I did the in-and-out of sleep thing until I gave up trying to wear it about an hour before I had to wake up.

Meanwhile, I'm done with Ambien. I'm having side effects that are troublesome. I'll try Lunesta, but if that doesn't work, I don't know how much hope there will be for my Provent trial. No surprise that I'd be an enigma in this domain, as in CPAP... Sigh. I think Provent should be fairly tolerable for those who can keep their mouth shut, or shut with a chinstrap that doesn't have to cover their mouth. Too bad I'm neither.

SleepingUgly wrote:That's a Papcap with what going over the mouth?

Around the mouth is one of those fleece headbands but any soft stretchy fabric will do.

I should add, it helps if you overlap you upper lip over your lower lip (like when you bite your lower lip). Just try that lip overlap and lightly press your index finger horizontally over your lips and try to blow air out. I think you will see what I mean. The stretchy fabric across the mouth does the same thing as your index finger.

Dreamstalker, I was wearing a chinstrap that covered my mouth. Now I'm wearing one (The Respironics Deluxe) that isn't intended to cover the mouth, but I'm pulling it over the mouth. The problem is that it's not comfortable to have the nose and mouth occluded while awake. I'm tolerating it some of the time, but sometimes I'm needing to breathe out through my mouth. I think it's waking me when I'm transitioning from mouth closed to open, or maybe vice versa, too, I don't know.

SleepingUgly wrote:Dreamstalker, I was wearing a chinstrap that covered my mouth. Now I'm wearing one (The Respironics Deluxe) that isn't intended to cover the mouth, but I'm pulling it over the mouth. The problem is that it's not comfortable to have the nose and mouth occluded while awake. I'm tolerating it some of the time, but sometimes I'm needing to breathe out through my mouth. I think it's waking me when I'm transitioning from mouth closed to open, or maybe vice versa, too, I don't know.

The PAPCap is not intended to cover the mouth either. And the home-made mouth strap is intended to have much less tension (to avoid jacking you jaw towards the back of your neck) while the vertical PAPCap strap should firmly keep your jaw shut. It is two separate straps each with different tensions and in different directions (at 90 degrees to each other).

The cool thing about this method is that it does easily allow you to breathe through it when you need to. For me it makes it easy to cough right through the stretchy mouth strap and then I just wet my lips and readjust/overlap them again. Doing it while unconsciously asleep could be a challenge though.

I guess I should post an update on my Provent experience. As usual, I'm an enigma. I can't keep my mouth shut (maybe it's a metaphorical symptom?!). But for this problem, I can tolerate Provent. In fact, sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and I am sure they fell off, but they didn't. It's possible that I'm keeping my mouth shut early in the night (perhaps with the help of Lunesta), but that as I start the repeated wake-sleep-wake-sleep cycle, I don't keep my mouth shut. I can't find any way to cover my mouth that keeps me from exhaling through it; furthermore, I need to be able to breathe through my mouth while awake at times. I've been able to go without exhaling through my mouth for short periods, but ultimately, while awake, I sometimes need my mouth. IF it worked for me like it's supposed to, I would breathe through my mouth while awake, then switch to nasal breathing while asleep. In the worse case, I'd need a chinstrap. For most people on CPAP, that's the case, so I would think most people who were motivated to tolerate Provent could learn to tolerate it.

I'm discouraged.

Even with a heavy duty chinstrap clamped on tight I could still breathe through my lips. So I got a full face mask and put the nasal pillows in the drawer. It works fine.

My trial with Provent is over. I can't seem to keep my mouth shut all night, even with a chinstrap.