CPAPtalk.com

Resmed has the SlimLine/ClimateLine hose problem, Respironics had the M Series humidifiier problem ..... trying to rush new products to market to soon to keep up w/or beat the competition??

Maybe I should quit pushing for and anticipating an S9 VPAP Auto. Let them get any bugs out of the S9 CPAPs/APAPs before they offer me an S9 VPAP Auto is probably the better idea. *sigh* On the other hand, I'm not one who has had a problem w/rain out so the ClimateLine hose isn't a selling point for me.

Meanwhile, so far, the PR SystemOne BPAP Auto is doing a good job. I just miss the better Resmed LCD screen, data and software reporting. *sigh*

kempo wrote:Maybe Resmed is too busy trying to fix the Slimline/Climateline problem. (sarcasm off)

Neither one should be too difficult. Make the hose a few mils thicker and make a slight change in the VPAP 24 volt converter, the plug is different, 3 volt sensing wire not present. Don't need to put newer products out, they probably won't sell very well without taking care of the S-9 problems. john

BlackSpinner wrote:Why is this so complex? I can buy a UPS for my computer that I can plug everything into without any complications.

Its not complex nowadays.

With an S9 (and similar generation machines from other vendors) a multi-stage charger, a deep-discharge 12V battery and a mains power inverter plus a few small accessories (see John Fisher's posts) will get you going simply, relatively inexpensively, and quite adequately to cover several days of operation off-mains-power for most purposes.

Cheers,

Bill

billbolton wrote:...

Err, Bill, this is like reading an alien language to those of us who have never done more than take a plug and insert it into an electical receptacle

Muse-Inc wrote:

billbolton wrote:...

Err, Bill, this is like reading an alien language to those of us who have never done more than take a plug and insert it into an electical receptacle

Hey, thats what Resmed may put on the market someday! john

Thanks Muse....my point exactly.

jazzer4 wrote:Thanks Muse....my point exactly.

Yup, that's why I don't have power backup...yet. When I can afford it, I might get a battery pack but then it's only good for a few nights but then I've never lost power for more than 2 nights since buying the house in '89.

BlackSpinner wrote:Why is this so complex? I can buy a UPS for my computer that I can plug everything into without any complications. The Everest was a simple one too. Why?

Surprisingly, the S9 with humidifier consumes a fair amount of power over a night's use. A UPS for your computer only needs to put out a fair amount of power for a short time period, usually just long enough for you to say, "Oh s***, the power went out AGAIN!" and go through the process of shutting down your computer in orderly fashion. The total power consumed in that time is not very much, maybe like 400 watts for 6 minutes for a total of 40 watt hours (400 x 6/60), so a small battery will suffice. On the other hand, the S9 with humidifier consumes about 90 watts. Power converters are not 100% efficient, so you might get 90% of the power out that goes in. This is done twice, from battery to same as house power, and from same as house power to S9 power. .9 X .9 = .81. You want the s9 to run for maybe 8 hours so the battery has to provide (8 x 90)/.81 = 889 watt hours of energy. Actually, the UPS example is really 40/.81 = 50 watt hours of energy. So, the battery to run the S9 has to supply almost 18 times as much energy as the UPS for your computer. 889 watt hours really is a lot of power to be able to suck out of a battery.

What everyone who is serious about this wants is a more efficient way to draw power from a battery to run the S9. A special purpose built converter is the best way to go. I ran my S9 for a little over 7 hours from my pickup battery one night while camping last summer. Battery was so drained I couldn't start the pickup without jumping. And the battery was less than 1 year old!

Does this help you understand better now why this is so complex?

Muse-Inc wrote:Err, Bill, this is like reading an alien language

John Fisher has detailed what to do for battery powering xPAP kit, for anyone who can follow simple instructions.

Cheers,

Bill

Adding this to the topics here:

LINKS to Battery operation, camping, power outage
viewtopic.php?t=9682

idamtnboy wrote:On the other hand, the S9 with humidifier consumes about 90 watts.

That is with EVERYTHING on maximum settings, which few users will ever need. For most users it will be a lot less than that.... many would struggle to get up to half of the maximum power rating.

idamtnboy wrote:Power converters are not 100% efficient, so you might get 90% of the power out that goes in.

An appropriately sized contemporary power converters will typically be at least 95% efficent.... this has been covered here numerous times.

idamtnboy wrote: .9 X .9 = .81

Well 0.95 * 0.95 = 0.90, but the "90W" rating is for the switch mode power supply not the xPAP unit, so you should not be taking the conversion efficency of that into this particular calculation for energy consumption from a battery power source.

idamtnboy wrote:You want the s9 to run for maybe 8 hours so the battery has to provide (8 x 90)/.81 = 889 watt hours of energy.

Typically its going to be much more like (8 * 45) / 0.95 = ~379W, which for a 12V supply is 12/379 = ~31.6 Amp Hours. Its still not a load you want to run off a small domestic computer grade UPS for too long, but nowhere near the level you are indicating.

idamtnboy wrote:Battery was so drained I couldn't start the pickup without jumping. And the battery was less than 1 year old!

A starter/cranking battery is not designed to be discharged below about 90% of rated capacity, so that outcome is entirely predictable. A 10% increase in power efficency would make no difference to your outcome.

idamtnboy wrote:Does this help you understand better now why this is so complex?

Again, If you use the right sort of kit, its not complex.

Cheers,

Bill

All this needs to be in the Wiki and easily found.

As far as UPS is concerned my eldest sold those things to keep computers up and running for hours - not just for the "Oh Sh*t " moments. That is not much use if you run server.

BlackSpinner wrote:As far as UPS is concerned my eldest sold those things to keep computers up and running for hours - not just for the "Oh Sh*t " moments. That is not much use if you run server.

There's one of those where I used to work to run control room computers. It was about the size of a big refrigerator, had 12, I think it was, special purpose batteries, and cost thousands of dollars. Would run the computers for about 8 hours I believe it was. UPS are available in all sorts of sizes, and prices. What I'm referring to above is your typical home use UPS.

Bill Bolton, my intent was to draw a somewhat easy to understand contrast between the typical home UPS and what's expected of it, and what's needed for the S9. Technical accuracy was secondary.

I have this:

http://tinyurl.com/33ke5a3

We hardly ever have power interruption in our area. So far I don't have to use the PowerBox yet. According to some reviews, it could last couple of nights without using the humidifier. I am using a S9.

All of this is good, but the point I was trying to make is that Resmed could have had my money and yours if they would just do what they promised to do, or said they were going to do.

I'm tired of worrying and spending money, not to mention gas and miles on the car to collect everything needed for a few hours without house power.

It's just a hardship that any of us should not have to go thru. "We" should not have to figure out and make ANYTHING for this expensive piece of medical equipment that we rely on.

Do you get my point?
It's ridiculous to sell medical equipment with no way to power it if the power goes out. After all, it it MEDICAL EQUIPMENT...I can live without my computer.