Anyone want to see what is inside their xPAP ? - pics

Well folks, Tis the beginning of a long week-end down under in Sydney & to give myself something to kick it off with I dismantled my current xPAP device which is an F&P HC221LE that I am trying out as part of a long term test plan for all major brands. In particular I want to prove that the Polaris models are essentially F&P gear repackaged into the familiar Polaris models (ISP9800 - flying saucer & ISP3000 (Square unit with SoftFlex)).

This link (which may shift as I build up my gallery of gear is for the next couple of weeks) is at ...
http://www.internetage.com/cpapinfo/fp-hc221le/

All the thumbnail images can be clicked on to see larger ones. When you have a larger pic you can navigate to prior or next pic using the navigation buttons in top right corner.

The pics aren't as nice as I wanted but it was late in the day & afterwards I didn't want to pull it apart for another photo shoot (I wanted it still to work that night )

Things worth noting are
>> That a small battery is used to remember the settings. These batterys are the same as is used on PC motherboards for the same purpose. If Battery goes flat I guess the xPAP forgets its settings - lets hope that never happens to any of us

>> The blower looks quite sophisticated - six wires go into the blower box - I wasn't game to dismantle that part any further.

>> See the calcium deposits on the sides of the water container - this can build up after only 24 hrs & I used boiled cooled tap water. These units do cleanup ok for me

>> Overall this unit seems well constructed.

Enjoy.

I will be pulling apart more of them in the future as well as using them

Cheers

Prof DSM

Its always nice to have someone else be willing to void their warranty to sate my curiosity.

you wrote:">> See the calcium deposits on the sides of the water container - this can build up after only 24 hrs & I used boiled cooled tap water. These units do cleanup ok for me "

Thats one heck of a good demo of why its worth spending a couple cents a day on DISTILLED water, and shows that boiled tap water will result in a LOT more maintenance required.

What struck me about the photos is yes it is a pretty clean design and looks to be reasonabley well constructed. (I am an electronics packaging design engineer, so I can appreciate it) But that sure is a simple machine and sparse circuit board considering the price of these machines!

Thanks for the pics. I look forward to the other machines being dissected.

The polaris is a certainty for disection.

I just this instant disected my RemStar AUTO (w CFLEX) and yes it has a lot more on the board than the F&P. I can see 3 air tubes running from the main air outlet to some type of sensors on the motherboard. It has many more chips as well. It was *very* easy to dismantle compared to the F&P. Will post pics tomorrow.

I have a new PB420S on the way in a week or so - - going to be a fun month.

The S8 may be a bit harder to pull apart (so compact).

Cheers DSM

DSM

Someone die and leave you a fortune. I would not dare to dismantle one of my machines

rock and roll wrote:DSM

Someone die and leave you a fortune. I would not dare to dismantle one of my machines

Aha! But, in another life I used to build and assemble stuff like this, then in a later life I serviced even more complex stuff.

This is a cake-walk - the hard part is extracting the embedded software & analysing it BUt, I don't plan to do that to these

Cheers

Doug

(My mother, when I was 5/6 said she took me to a psych to find out why I kept pulling all my toys to bits. To his credit after meeting me, this guy looked my mother in the eye and said 'leave him be, he is merely trying to find out how they work' - been doing it ever since - washers, stoves, dryers, cars, watches, computers, well anything - I am pretty good at repairing almost anything )

I'm good at taking them apart. It's putting them back together again that's hard.

My mother, when I was 5/6 said she took me to a psych to find out why I kept pulling all my toys to bits. To his credit after meeting me, this guy looked my mother in the eye and said 'leave him be, he is merely trying to find out how they work' - been doing it ever since - washers, stoves, dryers, cars, watches, conmputers, well anything - I am pretty good at repairing almost anything )

LOL my son has been doing that since he was little...he can fix and replace almost any car part as a result...comes in handy sometimes LOL

snork1 wrote:What struck me about the photos is yes it is a pretty clean design and looks to be reasonabley well constructed. (I am an electronics packaging design engineer, so I can appreciate it) But that sure is a simple machine and sparse circuit board considering the price of these machines!

Well, here is my educated guess. First of all, there is what the market will bear, if the DMEs are getting $1000 to $2000 per, then the manufacturer getting $200-300 per unit is not unreasonable I would guess. Giving CPAP.COM a 25 to 75% margin, which is pretty reasonable considering they probably have 100K+ worth of inventory and spend the time and money on customer service, and of course stand behind what they sell from what I can see. I can't fault anyone for making a decent living!

Secondly, coming from working on a couple of various medical devices over the last 4 years, there is a H - E - (double hockey sticks) worth of documentation. I did not do any research but I would guess CPAP's are at least a class III if not a class II medical device. This guess is based on the fact we need a prescription to get one. I would also suggest the APAPs had some really interesting sensor trickery going on. Trying to measure pressure variants over a 6' of flexible hose. Add in the nasal pillows and other possible vibration absorbing materials that line the various chambers and such. This truly boggles my mind.

IOW, there is a lot of R&D, insurance policies, paper work going on. Depending on volume, tooling can hit the bottom line pretty hard, as you would all know.

The current medical device I am working on is a class I, my best guess is that at least 1/2 the money spent, maybe more, is on documentation, and formal testing.

For reference, this is what I am working on http://www.baxter.com/products/blood_co ... /alyx.html
2 of the other medical devices I have worked on never made it to market, one was just a badly run project (not Baxter), and the other ran into chemistry problems.

Anyway, that is my view point. I am personally pleased with the notion that I can get 420e, mask and software for about $1000. Paying $100 for a mask is a bit scary, but then again when you think of the materials used, and all of the research, well, it's still a lot of money.

regards,
Tom

Thanks!! DSM.

I have so wanted to see inside my machine. But at this early date was afraid to dismantle it. I promised myself the day I got it that I would not do it until it was old and worn.
I too am one who wants to see what is inside things, although I don't always understand how they work. But I like to look. My son (computer tec.) was like you as a small boy. I purchased our first pc when he was about 8. At this time a pc was even more expensive than now. Left him home with his dad one day. Dad was busy outside. When I came home a short time later, the computer was COMPLETELY DISMANTLED and every part that could be removed was on the table. Don't ask what I said. He said "Don't be so upset! I just want to see what is inside. I'm going to put it back. It'll be fine." And it was. But that was one of my many nearly heart attacks from his escapades. He liked to take everything apart. He also liked to get in enclosed places. Like the freezer (above the refrigerator). Closed himself in and couldn't open it before he was quite 2. One of his favorite places was the clothes dryer. Found him asleep in it twice. Locked himself in the boot of the car 3 different times. I could go on and on but I won't. He is 28 yrs old and still alive and with all parts still attached but not without diligent watchfulness on his mother's part. Now you see part of the reason for so many wrinkles. Anyway, excuse the wordiness, please. But again thanks for the photos. Can't wait for you to do the Remstar!!

BTW, if I may add a postscript

1) I hope in no way I offend the list admin, I am only trying to point out how much of a decent job CPAP.com is doing from what I have seen over the last 2 weeks, and from talking to Bill F.

2) Me, my Dad has joked that I went through three phases in child hood. First I would take things appart. Then I would put them back together. Finally the things I took appart would work after re-assebmly

I still take things appart, they just tend to be bigger and more expensive

3) And of course, thanks for taking the time to post your pictures

cheers,
Tom

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dsm wrote:>> The blower looks quite sophisticated - six wires go into the blower box - I wasn't game to dismantle that part any further.=

I've dismantled one (an older unit) and found a brushless multi-pole DC motor, hence all the leads. Controlling the pulsing of the various poles will control the speed with quite good accuracy. Plus no brushes to wear out!