Beware of defective ineffective filters.

ejbpesca · Post by **ejbpesca** » Sun Mar 02, 2025 3:06 pm

I switched DMEs due to my online DME closing. The filters sent by the new DME looked quite different than what I had been getting. They had loose exposed fibers. After 1 month of use, they were as white as they were new. Fibers easily fell off them with a flick of a finger.

I showed the filters to my new DME and they switched to another brand that looked better but still had exposed fibers and did not discolor with use. I asked the DME for ResMed filters. They refused that request.

After switching DMEs and getting the different filters I developed chronic bronchitis that got steadily worse even though there was no infection. I was coughing thick mucous several times daily. The amount of phlegm was more upon waking, then decreased during the day. This has been going on for two years.

Two months ago I bought ResMed filters online. Those filters do not have exposed fibers. After a month's use, the filter side facing outward from the machine is charcoal gray and the other white. Coughing up mucous has reduced by 90% within six weeks.

I feel this is a very serious issue. I believe there are ineffective and dangerous filters being sold. DMEs are prone to buy the lowest-priced ones they can find which means more profit from insurance payouts. Another thing a DME may skimp upon is the quality of hoses. I have been sent some so defective they easily split open quickly with use. That problem was solved by asking for a heated hose which is much more flexible and durable.

Of all the many videos and discussions on CPAP therapy, I've never seen the issue of proper air filtration and differences in the quality/effectiveness of filters mentioned.

I keep two air purifiers running 24/7, one in my bedroom. They are MERV 13 which captures .3 to 10 micron particulates. Once I change a filter they begin to discolor in minutes due to their high efficiency. No room air purifier completely cleans air so a proper CPAP filter is essential for health and to protect the machine from dust. In my case, defective filters were causing a serious health issue.

I think some CPAP filters do not even catch average dust much less bacteria and viruses.

Conrad · Post by **Conrad** » Mon Mar 03, 2025 8:54 am

Don't get so hung up on the color of the filters after they're used a bit.

Yes, some of the color change can be related to filter efficiency but it's also completely dependent on the air being filtered. During the winter months with the windows closed and the furnace running (filtering the air) there is less dust than in the warm weather months with the windows open. This also is dependent on where you live.

I live in an area surrounded by farmland and when the fields are being plowed, it's dust city around here! Dust city = discolored CPAP filters. No dust = no discoloration.

Remember, the air that you breathe while awake is not filtered by your CPAP. You ok with that?

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Mon Mar 03, 2025 11:35 am

Conrad wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 03, 2025 8:54 am
Remember, the air that you breathe while awake is not filtered by your CPAP.

True, but the human propensity is to blame everything on CPAP.

ejbpesca · Post by **ejbpesca** » Mon Mar 03, 2025 1:19 pm

Conrad wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 03, 2025 8:54 am
Don't get so hung up on the color of the filters after they're used a bit.

Yes, some of the color change can be related to filter efficiency but it's also completely dependent on the air being filtered. During the winter months with the windows closed and the furnace running (filtering the air) there is less dust than in the warm weather months with the windows open. This also is dependent on where you live.

I live in an area surrounded by farmland and when the fields are being plowed, it's dust city around here! Dust city = discolored CPAP filters. No dust = no discoloration.

Remember, the air that you breathe while awake is not filtered by your CPAP. You ok with that?

The discoloration happens year-round, not seasonally with a proper filter. No discoloration happens year round not seasonally with a defective filter. It is a simple factual proof of a filter either capturing matter or not.

Please remember that the air you breathe from your CPAP machine has been altered by an intake/filter/and pressure. It is not similar to the air you breathe without CPAP. Particulates are sucked into the machine and sent to your lungs under pressure. A proper filter keeps a concentration of particulates from the air you receive in the mask. Your nose/mouth does not operate in the same fashion.

Conrad · Post by **Conrad** » Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:05 am

ejbpesca wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 03, 2025 1:19 pm

Conrad wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 03, 2025 8:54 am
Don't get so hung up on the color of the filters after they're used a bit.

Yes, some of the color change can be related to filter efficiency but it's also completely dependent on the air being filtered. During the winter months with the windows closed and the furnace running (filtering the air) there is less dust than in the warm weather months with the windows open. This also is dependent on where you live.

I live in an area surrounded by farmland and when the fields are being plowed, it's dust city around here! Dust city = discolored CPAP filters. No dust = no discoloration.

Remember, the air that you breathe while awake is not filtered by your CPAP. You ok with that?
The discoloration happens year-round, not seasonally with a proper filter. No discoloration happens year round not seasonally with a defective filter. It is a simple factual proof of a filter either capturing matter or not.

Please remember that the air you breathe from your CPAP machine has been altered by an intake/filter/and pressure. It is not similar to the air you breathe without CPAP. Particulates are sucked into the machine and sent to your lungs under pressure. A proper filter keeps a concentration of particulates from the air you receive in the mask. Your nose/mouth does not operate in the same fashion.

The bolded line above makes no sense whatsoever. If there's little, to no, dust in the air to filter then the filter will not change color as a result. Agree?

The air coming from your CPAP is not similar to the air in your house? The ONLY real difference is the small amount of filtering the machine provides for. Yes, it's under a small amount of pressure and it's possibly been humidified. Other than that, there's no difference, at least not one that would change anything.

ejbpesca · Post by **ejbpesca** » Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:22 am

Conrad wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 03, 2025 8:54 am
Don't get so hung up on the color of the filters after they're used a bit.

Yes, some of the color change can be related to filter efficiency but it's also completely dependent on the air being filtered. During the winter months with the windows closed and the furnace running (filtering the air) there is less dust than in the warm weather months with the windows open. This also is dependent on where you live.

The statement you don't understand is a response to your statement above about seasonal dust levels. Here the same discoloration happens year round year after year in the same house with a proper filter. No discoloration happens ever with defective filters all year round year after year in the same house. Does that not make sense to you in demonstrating the difference between these filters? There are six other filters in this house for various devices...they ALL discolor. The only filters that do not discolor are the defective, ineffective cheap filters sent to me by a DME.

This should be a warning for people to consider what they use as a filter for their CPAP machines. There are junk filters for very cheap and do not filter properly and have exposed fibers that can come loose.

Your situation is different than mine. If your filters discolor during your dusty farm days then great. If they never discolored then they would not be capturing anything or there would be no particulates in your air which is not possible. All year round there is dust. The skin of humans produces quite a bit of it. Here mold spores are part of life in this dank damp environment even with AC and air purifiers.

Breathing in the air from a CPAP machine is not breathing normally. The air intake sucks in particulates continuously with more pressure than natural breathing. The filter is there to prevent those particulates from being forced into the lungs.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:59 am

Funny, I always thought the filter was to prevent build up of airborne dust inside the machine.

If you sleep with a bed partner who doesn't use CPAP, they are breathing in whatever is airborne in the room. Does the bed partner need to be wearing a dust mask?

ejbpesca wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:22 am
... the same discoloration happens year round year after year in the same house with a proper filter. No discoloration happens ever with defective filters all year round year after year in the same house.

Maybe the "proper" filter is made of fibers that discolor under any conditions.

ejbpesca · Post by **ejbpesca** » Tue Mar 04, 2025 12:04 pm

Chicago Granny,

The filters that discolor are made of material that captures particulates that are evident by discoloration. A filter that does not capture particulate matter remains clean.

The bed partner without CPAP is breathing normally, not from a machine that concentrates particulates from its continuous suction of air that is then forced out into the user. Filters are there not just to protect the machine but to prevent the user from the effects of the continuous suction of the air intake.

The proper filters I mention discolor due to capturing particles from air. They are the ResMed brand. The other filters I mentioned do not discolor from the same amount of use in the same place and same air which is empirical evidence they are not capturing particulates the ResMed filters capture.

It appears that anyone can press fibers together, call it a CPAP filter, and sell it without giving any specifications of its filtering ability or passing safety regulations. After I showed the first one I was concerned about to my DME they immediately changed brands for another type that was not falling apart but still did not discolor and still had exposed loose fibers.

Filters by Phillips I first used discolored, the first filters I got for my AS10 did not. I bought ResMed filters and they discolored. I know of no filter of any type for any device that remains clean after use except the filters I am sent by my DME.

AusJ · Post by **AusJ** » Tue Mar 04, 2025 5:37 pm

OP is right to be concerned. Use of a CPAP without filters will necessarily increase the amount of particulates the user is exposed to in comparison to a non-user. The CPAP machine necessarily has to draw in more air than a human would in order to provide the higher pressure, which means more particulates are concentrated in each breath.

OP is also correct about the behaviour of the filters. It sounds like the second brand their DME provided was too coarse to be useful, even though it wasn't falling apart. Coarser filters will catch less particles from the air.

Dog Slobber · Post by **Dog Slobber** » Wed Mar 05, 2025 7:57 am

AusJ wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 04, 2025 5:37 pm
OP is right to be concerned. Use of a CPAP without filters will necessarily increase the amount of particulates the user is exposed to in comparison to a non-user. The CPAP machine necessarily has to draw in more air than a human would in order to provide the higher pressure, which means more particulates are concentrated in each breath.

OP is also correct about the behaviour of the filters. It sounds like the second brand their DME provided was too coarse to be useful, even though it wasn't falling apart. Coarser filters will catch less particles from the air.

No, the OP is not necessarily correct.

Yes, more air is drawn through the filter, but all that extra air does not translate to more particulates in each breath.
The filter captures some particles
A large abount of drawn air is vented, and the particles with it
A large amount of particles is trapped by surface tension on water
More pressure does not translate to more breath

The OP is also not necessarily correct about the difference in discolouration

Materials [or coating on materials] don't discolour the same. A lot of material naturally discolours because of exposure to air.
The two filters may not have started off the same colour. One could be white, the other sligtly off-white, they could both be discolouring equally but not/less noticable on the off-white.

Conrad · Post by **Conrad** » Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:07 am

Discoloration of filters is also completely dependent on the color of the dust/particulates in the air.

Conrad · Post by **Conrad** » Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:10 am

ejbpesca wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:22 am

Conrad wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 03, 2025 8:54 am
Don't get so hung up on the color of the filters after they're used a bit.

Yes, some of the color change can be related to filter efficiency but it's also completely dependent on the air being filtered. During the winter months with the windows closed and the furnace running (filtering the air) there is less dust than in the warm weather months with the windows open. This also is dependent on where you live.

The statement you don't understand is a response to your statement above about seasonal dust levels. Here the same discoloration happens year round year after year in the same house with a proper filter. No discoloration happens ever with defective filters all year round year after year in the same house. Does that not make sense to you in demonstrating the difference between these filters? There are six other filters in this house for various devices...they ALL discolor. The only filters that do not discolor are the defective, ineffective cheap filters sent to me by a DME.

This should be a warning for people to consider what they use as a filter for their CPAP machines. There are junk filters for very cheap and do not filter properly and have exposed fibers that can come loose.

Your situation is different than mine. If your filters discolor during your dusty farm days then great. If they never discolored then they would not be capturing anything or there would be no particulates in your air which is not possible. All year round there is dust. The skin of humans produces quite a bit of it. Here mold spores are part of life in this dank damp environment even with AC and air purifiers.

Breathing in the air from a CPAP machine is not breathing normally. The air intake sucks in particulates continuously with more pressure than natural breathing. The filter is there to prevent those particulates from being forced into the lungs.
I got you now, you explained it a bit better here. The 'good' filters change color year-round while the 'bad' filters do not change colors ever. Got it.

AusJ · Post by **AusJ** » Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:18 am

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 05, 2025 7:57 am

AusJ wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 04, 2025 5:37 pm
OP is right to be concerned. Use of a CPAP without filters will necessarily increase the amount of particulates the user is exposed to in comparison to a non-user. The CPAP machine necessarily has to draw in more air than a human would in order to provide the higher pressure, which means more particulates are concentrated in each breath.

OP is also correct about the behaviour of the filters. It sounds like the second brand their DME provided was too coarse to be useful, even though it wasn't falling apart. Coarser filters will catch less particles from the air.
No, the OP is not necessarily correct.

Yes, more air is drawn through the filter, but all that extra air does not translate to more particulates in each breath.

The filter captures some particles

A large abount of drawn air is vented, and the particles with it

A large amount of particles is trapped by surface tension on water

More pressure does not translate to more breath

You didn't read what I said. Use without a filter will increase the amount of particulates that the user is exposed to. This is high-school (secondary school) stuff - the ideal gas equation (PV=nRT). If the volume (V) of breath is the same but the pressure (P) is higher, then the number of particles inhaled (n) and/or the temperature (T) has to increase (and given that the heating element in a humidifier or heated tube occurs after the blower in the CPAP, the key way it increases pressure is to compress the air, hence driving up the number of particles). Whether or not a portion of that air is vented is completely irrelevant unless you're suggesting that the volume that gets inhaled somehow has a lower concentration of particulates than the part that is vented?

As for your claims that a large amount of particles are trapped by surface tension on the water, please provide evidence. If one is not using a humidifier, then there is no water. If one is, then that water is slowly being converted to vapour - some of which is inhaled by the user. The assumption that the main body of water in the humidifier traps the particles doesn't make sense - the particles would need to fall out of the airflow before reaching the other side of the humidifier, which is nonsensical since we know many particulates stay airborne for minutes to hours (e.g. smoke haze) and that's without a strong directional airflow to keep them moving. It is far more likely that they would be captured by the water vapour rising off the water in the humidifier - so unless you're advocating for rain out, the humidifier is unlikely to stop particulates from being inhaled by the user.

About the only things I agree with you on are that (1) different filter materials may discolour due solely to exposure to the air and (2) depending on the colour of the filter material, the discolouration due to contaminant buildup may not be as noticeable. OP will need to confirm if all the filters were the same colour.

However, if different filters are actually trapping the same amount of particulates under the same conditions, then the same buildup of discoloured material on top of the filter will occur regardless of its starting colour.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:28 am

This is on the verge of being nothing but a pissing contest.

ENOUGH with this. Agree to disagree and move on. If you guys/gals persist in this argument I will lock the thread.
This is your one and only warning.

Thank you.

ejbpesca · Post by **ejbpesca** » Wed Mar 05, 2025 10:39 am

OP will need to confirm if all the filters were the same colour.

However, if different filters are actually trapping the same amount of particulates under the same conditions, then the same buildup of discolored material on top of the filter will occur regardless of its starting colour.
[/quote]

All filters are bright white at the beginning of service.

Filter A (OEM product) from early service and DME A discolored to shade of gray by end of each month. Changed once a month for 10 years Each one discolored about the same from white to gray.
Filter B from DME B did not discolor and had fibers falling off (discontinued after 5 months due to loose fibers and no discoloration) DME stopped selling that filter brand.
Filter C from recent service and DME B did not discolor. It had more compact fibers but some loose ones. Changed once a month for six months with no discoloration
Filter D in current use, a ResMed product I bought discolors on the side facing outward and remains clean on the side facing inward. Fibers are encapsulated in membrane-like covering.

The filters were used in the same house, all times of year, each day, and changed once a month. Water is not a factor since I do not use a humidifier.

Filters do not discolor due to the uniqueness of the material, the all begin bright white. Only OEM filters discolor with use.

Beware of defective ineffective filters.

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