No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

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slowmo2000
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No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by slowmo2000 » Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:24 am

Hi all,

I'm relative newb (3 months in). I use a nasal mask and was getting mouth leak so I started using cover-roll tape. I purse my lips pretty tight, stretch the tape, use no humidity and try to keep my facial hair in check but am still getting mouth leak. Thoughts on solutions?

Also, do people generally get used to no humidity. I can generally go about six hours at my current pressure (12 - 13) but the dryness/burning gets to me and I need to take a break. Under lower pressure (9 - 10) I have no issues.

Thanks!

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Pugsy
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Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by Pugsy » Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:39 am

Is your tape still secure in the morning?
If it is then maybe the leak is mask movement leak.

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slowmo2000
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Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by slowmo2000 » Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:23 am

Such a great point! I'll try tightening up my mask.

Also, I'm curious if folks have had success with mouth taping and keeping humidity on (though low) and getting leaks to stop?

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:33 am

slowmo2000 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:23 am
Also, I'm curious if folks have had success with mouth taping and keeping humidity on (though low) and getting leaks to stop?
Yes.

slowmo2000 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:23 am
I'll try tightening up my mask.
That sounds like you are going to cinch that baby down tight. That would be a mistake. Before you tighten your mask, find your model on YouTube and watch some videos on fitting and adjusting.

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vandownbytheriver
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Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by vandownbytheriver » Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:40 am

Pugsy wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:39 am
Is your tape still secure in the morning?
If it is then maybe the leak is mask movement leak.
slowmo2000 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:23 am
Such a great point! I'll try tightening up my mask.

Also, I'm curious if folks have had success with mouth taping and keeping humidity on (though low) and getting leaks to stop?
Note Pugsy did *not* suggest tightening the mask (as CG replied)... and you didn't answer her question about your tape job. You *did* mention facial hair. This leads me to believe your tape job is failing... I had problems until I a) shaved the moustache and b) started using three pieces of tape, two vertically across the mouth corners and one across. Also, you have to tape from the low points out... press the tape into the very corners, then spread it outward... it has to follow every curve of your face better than spandex, you don't want it bridging across valleys.

When testing your tape job relax your jaw and tongue and let the full therapy pressure fill your mouth... another reason to turn off Ramp and up your base pressure to therapy level. You'll soon find if you're going to leak. Also do this in the morning to find the leaks that may have happened overnight... that's how I discovered that one leaky corner and put more tape. I finally just moved over to a full-face mask (put your machine and mask in your profile!) and use only one piece of tape... it helps with drooling, mouth-breathing, and jaw drop... the tape job doesn't have to hold any pressure obviously.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve 10 Vauto USA C2C CO
Mask: Fisher & Paykel Vitera Full Face Mask with Headgear (S, M, or L Cushion)
Additional Comments: I use O2Ring, Oscar, SleepHQ, and Cover Roll Stretch mouth tape.

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Pugsy
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Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by Pugsy » Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:47 am

slowmo2000 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:23 am
I'm curious if folks have had success with mouth taping and keeping humidity on (though low) and getting leaks to stop?
I fail to understand how humidity causes leaks.
I use a max humidity setting of 8 and a nasal mask and I don't have a huge amount of excessive leaks and in fact have had a few 0.0 leak nights. One not long ago.....and I don't tape or do anything to keep the mouth shut.

If condensation is causing tape to come loose....the problem is the condensation itself and that's easily fixed. No need to not use humidified air (to the extent the nasal mucosa needs the moisture) just because the tape is coming loose.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

slowmo2000
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Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by slowmo2000 » Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:54 pm

vandownbytheriver wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:40 am
Pugsy wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:39 am
Is your tape still secure in the morning?
If it is then maybe the leak is mask movement leak.
slowmo2000 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:23 am
Such a great point! I'll try tightening up my mask.

Also, I'm curious if folks have had success with mouth taping and keeping humidity on (though low) and getting leaks to stop?
Note Pugsy did *not* suggest tightening the mask (as CG replied)... and you didn't answer her question about your tape job. You *did* mention facial hair. This leads me to believe your tape job is failing... I had problems until I a) shaved the moustache and b) started using three pieces of tape, two vertically across the mouth corners and one across. Also, you have to tape from the low points out... press the tape into the very corners, then spread it outward... it has to follow every curve of your face better than spandex, you don't want it bridging across valleys.



When testing your tape job relax your jaw and tongue and let the full therapy pressure fill your mouth... another reason to turn off Ramp and up your base pressure to therapy level. You'll soon find if you're going to leak. Also do this in the morning to find the leaks that may have happened overnight... that's how I discovered that one leaky corner and put more tape. I finally just moved over to a full-face mask (put your machine and mask in your profile!) and use only one piece of tape... it helps with drooling, mouth-breathing, and jaw drop... the tape job doesn't have to hold any pressure obviously.

First, huge thanks to everyone on this forum helping others - you all are amazing!

Second, I won't over tighten my mask. I have watched videos on YouTube in regard to mask set up and will double check to make sure I'm not too loose.

In terms of facial hair, I usually have two - four days of stubble, which gets trimmed down to a zero (not bc of CPAP but more b/c of personal preference). Last week, I went completely clean shaven and had high pretty high leak (+7), though humidity was on (level 1). I bring up humidity b/c I've read that the excess moisture can cause tape failure.

I had been doing two strip of tape across and I've tried very hard to press them everywhere but will try the protocol you've outlined. I notice I get some saliva leak and I wonder if that's the bigger culprit (vs humidity). I feel like I'm doing something wrong when I purse my lips together to get a seal. If I'm understanding correctly, I should press down into all the crevices, including my lips and the corners of my mouth?

I don't use Ramp but I do use EPR. I reviewed my data with Jason (Lankylefty) and he said things actually looked better for me with EPR on vs off. I tend to get aerophagia if I get my pressure above 13. I tried a full face mask (F30i) but I find that I lose seal very easily if I'm not on my back.

Were you using humidity when you had your nasal set up going? I feel like I need just a little so I don't dry out but this could just be b/c I'm leaking.

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vandownbytheriver
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Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by vandownbytheriver » Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:40 pm

slowmo2000 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:54 pm
(snip)
Were you using humidity when you had your nasal set up going? I feel like I need just a little so I don't dry out but this could just be b/c I'm leaking.
Yes, always max humid and heat. Stubble is not a big deal I don't think.

Test your tape job before and after sleep. Tuck your lips in (Jason says 'purse', not the right word I think), you don't want to tape the lip surface, that hurts. I put balm on the lips, then tuck them in so the balm doesn't touch the tape. Your leak graphs will show if your tape job is failing.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve 10 Vauto USA C2C CO
Mask: Fisher & Paykel Vitera Full Face Mask with Headgear (S, M, or L Cushion)
Additional Comments: I use O2Ring, Oscar, SleepHQ, and Cover Roll Stretch mouth tape.

slowmo2000
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Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by slowmo2000 » Tue Apr 02, 2024 6:20 am

vandownbytheriver wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:40 pm
slowmo2000 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:54 pm
(snip)
Were you using humidity when you had your nasal set up going? I feel like I need just a little so I don't dry out but this could just be b/c I'm leaking.
Yes, always max humid and heat. Stubble is not a big deal I don't think.

Test your tape job before and after sleep. Tuck your lips in (Jason says 'purse', not the right word I think), you don't want to tape the lip surface, that hurts. I put balm on the lips, then tuck them in so the balm doesn't touch the tape. Your leak graphs will show if your tape job is failing.
Thank you so much!

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by ChicagoGranny » Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:21 am

vandownbytheriver wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:42 pm
Tuck your lips in (Jason says 'purse', not the right word I think)
---------------------->
Meaning of pursed in English

pursed

past simple and past participle of purse
purse
verb [ T ]
UK /pɜːs/ US /pɝːs/

to bring your lips tightly together so that they form a rounded shape, usually as an expression of disapproval:
"I don't approve of that kind of language," she said, pursing her lips.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... ish/pursed
Etymology:
c. 1600 as "draw together and wrinkle" (as the strings of a money bag), from purse
Last edited by ChicagoGranny on Wed Apr 03, 2024 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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vandownbytheriver
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Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by vandownbytheriver » Tue Apr 02, 2024 9:42 pm

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:21 am
slowmo2000 wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 6:20 am
Tuck your lips in (Jason says 'purse', not the right word I think)
---------------------->
Meaning of pursed in English

pursed

past simple and past participle of purse
purse
verb [ T ]
UK /pɜːs/ US /pɝːs/

to bring your lips tightly together so that they form a rounded shape, usually as an expression of disapproval:
"I don't approve of that kind of language," she said, pursing her lips.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... ish/pursed
Etymology:
c. 1600 as "draw together and wrinkle" (as the strings of a money bag), from purse
Waxing pedantic! Might as well mee too... I'm the quote above, not slomo.

Yeah, I read 'purse' more like 'pucker'... when Jason's doing it he's tucking his lips in.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve 10 Vauto USA C2C CO
Mask: Fisher & Paykel Vitera Full Face Mask with Headgear (S, M, or L Cushion)
Additional Comments: I use O2Ring, Oscar, SleepHQ, and Cover Roll Stretch mouth tape.

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ozij
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Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by ozij » Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:45 am

Just tuck your lips in.
Don't wrinkle, don't stretch.
The process for me is:
Lip balm
Fold lips in
Put tape on, making sure the corners of my mouth are properly covered
Relax lips - tape keeps them from opening, and that's what I want.


Very similar the way vandownbytheriver does it.

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slowmo2000
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Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by slowmo2000 » Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:20 am

ozij wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:45 am
Don't wrinkle, don't stretch.
Don't stretch the tape?

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vandownbytheriver
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Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by vandownbytheriver » Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:27 am

slowmo2000 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:20 am
ozij wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:45 am
Don't wrinkle, don't stretch.
Don't stretch the tape?
No... if you tuck your lips while applying, then when you relax there will be pressure there anyway. Stretching the tape (stretch *is* in the name I know) will tend to cause the tape to bunch your skin, 'bridge' across gaps, and wrinkle... places for leaking. Apply from the center outward to the low spots/corners horizontally, then vertically. Puff your cheeks to check the tape job. Check your tape job in the morning too. Look at your graphs and check for the sign of failure, a ramping up leaking.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve 10 Vauto USA C2C CO
Mask: Fisher & Paykel Vitera Full Face Mask with Headgear (S, M, or L Cushion)
Additional Comments: I use O2Ring, Oscar, SleepHQ, and Cover Roll Stretch mouth tape.

slowmo2000
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2024 4:20 pm

Re: No humidity mouth taping but still leaking

Post by slowmo2000 » Wed Apr 03, 2024 10:16 am

Makes sense. I've been doing the three strips of tape and that seems to have solved mouth leak for me (TYSM!). I still get some leak but I think it's just mask position as I'm moving around at night.