How does CPAP prevent apnea?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
erolalper
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How does CPAP prevent apnea?

Post by erolalper » Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:49 am

Hello, I have a question for experienced friends. I really can't wrap my mind around this issue. I use a Cpap device, not auto. With constant 8 pressure. As we all know, these devices give us air as long as we breathe. For example, when I put on the mask while I am awake and consciously hold my breath, I can hold my breath as long as I can. The device does not force me to breathe again in any way. So, this being the case, how can the device open this blockage when we experience blockage in our sleep at night? How can it prevent apnea by keeping the airway open at all times? Because the device does not force me to breathe unless I breathe. Thanks.

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Rubicon
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Re: How does CPAP prevent apnea?

Post by Rubicon » Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:13 am

Freeze this moment a little bit longer.
Make each sensation a little bit stronger.
Experience slips away.

erolalper
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Re: How does CPAP prevent apnea?

Post by erolalper » Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:44 am

There is a lot of common information on Google. They all say: "Continuous airflow keeps the airways open and prevents any pauses in breathing."
The device cannot give me air unless I breathe. What good is it if it constantly gives air? So what triggers me to breathe again while wearing a mask?

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lazarus
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Re: How does CPAP prevent apnea?

Post by lazarus » Thu Feb 29, 2024 6:06 am

In the case of OSA:

OSA stands for obstructive sleep apnea, which CPAP treats by preventing obstruction and by preventing the narrowing of the airway, thus keeping the airway stable.
erolalper wrote:
Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:49 am
while I am awake and consciously hold my breath
CPAP treats sleep-breathing, not awake-breathing.
erolalper wrote:
Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:44 am
what triggers me to breathe
Your body does that, just like everyone else.

In the case of CSA:

Stabilizing the airway with CPAP often allows the body to have the ability to normalize the way it breathes during sleep. If not, other forms of treatment may become necessary.
The people who confuse "entomology" and "etymology" really bug me beyond words.
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robbob2112
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Re: How does CPAP prevent apnea?

Post by robbob2112 » Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:27 am

Think of your airway between the nose/mouth as a soft floppy ballon like they twist a dog toy out of, but that has thick walls. Air goes in and out during the day when you are vertical and everything is fine. When you lay down it kinda slumps over but is still open. Now imagine a small kitten sits on it a few inches from one end. That is your jaw and tongue relaxing while you sleep. The ballon flattens out and is obstructed, hard to breath through. Now put pressure inside the ballon equal to the weight of the kitten and it is open again and you can breath. That is CPAP at a single pressure.

Now assume there are two kittens playing on the ballon, sometimes only one is on it, other times there are two on it. So you can sense the changing weight so you increase and decrease the pressure to hold your ballon open and breath. That is APAP

Now you are having to always maintain that pressure and it makes it easier to suck air in, but you have to work to push the air out. So we give the kitten a ride and inhaling is still easy, but exhaling we lower the pressure a bit so you have to fight less. That is EPR. Expiritory pressure relief.

Now, assume the kittens are jumping on and off so you can have no kittens, two kittens, or just one sitting there. So, you track what they are doing over a 90 second period and track how hard they jump and how often they jump. This is called minute vent, how hard is expiration and how often in a minute multipled together. So if one crouches and waits to pounce but waits to long, that a missed breath. Or if they are tired and slowing down and you breath more shallow. The machine increases pressure to force a breath or increases pressure to wake the kittens up. That is ASV, auto servo ventilation.

Bet you didn't know you had kittens on your throat?

Note - no kittens were injured during the creation of this message

Craig H
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Re: How does CPAP prevent apnea?

Post by Craig H » Sat Mar 02, 2024 4:01 pm

erolalper wrote:
Thu Feb 29, 2024 4:49 am
Hello, I have a question for experienced friends. I really can't wrap my mind around this issue. I use a Cpap device, not auto. With constant 8 pressure. As we all know, these devices give us air as long as we breathe. For example, when I put on the mask while I am awake and consciously hold my breath, I can hold my breath as long as I can. The device does not force me to breathe again in any way. So, this being the case, how can the device open this blockage when we experience blockage in our sleep at night? How can it prevent apnea by keeping the airway open at all times? Because the device does not force me to breathe unless I breathe. Thanks.


Holding your breath is not the same as "blocked" airways...IMHO

One is consciously pausing your lungs...the other is unconscious collapse of the airway.

springman946
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Re: How does CPAP prevent apnea?

Post by springman946 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:38 pm

there are bi-pap devices out that that will initiate a breath for you. if you happen to stop breathing during the night. when you stop breathing your ASV machine will detect this and force you to breath by forcibly blowing air into your airway to keep it open, by doing this your body will send the proper signals to your diaphragm to start breathing again until the next. apnea occurs. then the process repeats. ASV which stands for auto serve ventilation. I hope this helps

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vandownbytheriver
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Re: How does CPAP prevent apnea?

Post by vandownbytheriver » Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:41 pm

erolalper wrote:
Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:44 am
There is a lot of common information on Google. They all say: "Continuous airflow keeps the airways open and prevents any pauses in breathing."
The device cannot give me air unless I breathe. What good is it if it constantly gives air? So what triggers me to breathe again while wearing a mask?
It's giving you 8cm pressure constantly... when you breathe in, it pumps harder to maintain that 8cm. When you breathe out, it pumps slower to maintain that 8. What this does is inflate your collapsed airway since the outside of your neck/head/body is at lower pressure... it does not breathe for you or encourage you to breathe (that's a different machine). It's inflating you... you're the balloon. I know it works because I'd die without it.

Another thing many don't realize is that the mask must leak... if it didn't you'd strangle on your own CO2. So there's holes built into the mask called 'exhalation ports'... that's where your breath eventually goes. When you breathe out it goes up the hose somewhat, then out the ports during your next breath.

I know this whole compliance thing is a PITA... but you're lucky, you didn't come to the party dying crying for help like I did. Compliance was not a problem for me... my AHI was listed as '>100', which means stupid high, too high to measure.... the sleep tech had mercy on me in other words. I begged for a machine after that first taste of sweet sweet CPAP... took two weeks to get it. Bonus: it cured my GERD and reflux too. I started at 10cm H2O.

Your breathing drive is triggered by blood CO2... which changes your pH. Too high pH (not enough CO2) and you forget to breathe. These are called Central Apneas or Clear Airway... pressure does not help those... but it can induce them if it strips your CO2 away, say by over-treating you.

You have normal OSA, obstructive sleep apnea, and if you can get acclimated and compliant you can avoid some of the symptoms I ended up with, like obesity and diabetes. Bad sleep messes you up.

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