Loving the AirTouch F20 and Hi Pressure vs Low Pressure

Been on CPAP therapy for 11 years. 99.99% of that time has been spent with nasal pillows because they were so comfortable and I could not get a seal with a FFM. (fat face, not beard). Would fight dry mouth and get leaks periodically and sometimes tried mouth taping.

My curiosity got the better of me a week ago and I sprung for a AirTouch F20. The memory foam idea was so intriguing. After trying it for 5-6 days, I have to say its by far the best FFM I've ever used. The others would leak. The hybrids would irritate my nose.

I guess now I'm going to have to hook up with a DME to get replacements pads via Medicare. Do any of the online stores do that?

I'm on ASV. Pretty high pressure. Ranging from 12-18 with mask pressure from around 8-12. AHI 0.21

Just for grins I tried the F20 with a non-ASV machine I have and scored a 1.55. Pressure was about 10 generally and mask pressure was about 6-10. My flow limit spikes were WAY less.

Even though my AHI was slightly higher my gut reaction is to think I may be better off with the non-ASV machine at lower pressure. Any thoughts?

JaxTom wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:13 pm

My flow limit spikes were WAY less.

You can't really compare flow limitation graphs between the two models....ASV vs non ASV.
The ASV machine makes huge mountains out of tiny mole hills that are reported by the non ASV model.
Different algorithms working there. Apples and oranges comparisons...can't be done.

JaxTom wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:13 pm

Even though my AHI was slightly higher my gut reaction is to think I may be better off with the non-ASV machine at lower pressure. Any thoughts?

Why? Is it just because of the difference visually in terms of FL graphs between the 2 machines? If so...wrong assumption.

Better yet....how did you come to be on ASV? Any special reason?
Diagnosed with central apnea or obstructive apnea or mixed apnea??

JaxTom wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:13 pm

I guess now I'm going to have to hook up with a DME to get replacements pads via Medicare. Do any of the online stores do that?

Yep, some online suppliers will file Medicare for you and wait for Medicare to pay.
Most don't but some do.

Centrals started showing up after initial treatment for OSA. My first sleep doc worked me thru several types of machines and it wasn't till we went on ASV that we got things under 5. And then it was generally close to 0.00 all the time. Machine hit it's time limit after I went on Medicare. Since I had to start all over (new sleep studies etc), I thought I'd also try a new doc.

I was a cog in the machine at new Doc. It was like a factory with patients coming and going. He put me on V10Auto and we got scores around 4.5 and he said "close enough" and sent me on my way. I wasn't satisfied, bought myself a used ASV, scores went back to 0 and I went back to original sleep doc.

I've only had the one night with the AirTouch F20 and the V10 Auto. I just thought if I can get essentially the same result with less aggressive treatment that would be a good thing. I've never been the "well rested the next day" type.

Ah...when centrals pop up after starting cpap therapy that is call treatment emergent central apnea and when someone also has obstructive apnea events that the cpap is treating then that is called Complex Sleep Apnea meaning both central apneas and obstructive apneas.

Sometimes treatment emergent central apnea will resolve or go away on its own after a period of time...sometimes short period and sometimes a long period.

It wouldn't be impossible for your treatment emergent centrals to have faded in numbers after a period of time.
If it has gone away then you probably could get by with the VAuto model. Bear in mind that an occasional central apnea is considered normal. They don't normally get all excited about central apneas until you start seeing more than 5 per hour each and every night.

The VAuto will flag any centrals that it senses so you will know if it is happening or not.

Go with how you feel as best you can when comparing machines and their results.

Don't go by the FL graph though....it's not a fair comparison at all.

I'll second you on the AirTouch being a great mask. I have about a month's worth of facial hair growth and my maximum leak rate is still 0 almost every night. Sure beats having to shave so I could cover my mouth with tape to prevent massive leaks, like I had to do with nasal pillows.

Night two on the non-ASV machine and the F20 AirTouch resulted in a 0.6 AHI. I'm encouraged enough that I put my ASV back into the closet. (for now)

So a week later and I continue to get get good numbers with the AirTouchF20 and my non-ASV machine. 1.1 AHI last night and 7 continuous hours of sleep. I started the process of getting replacement seals thru a DME with Medicare.

One thing about my non-ASV machine is that it has a working modem. I haven't been downloading into Oscar, just relying on MyAir. I've now been on the AirTouch F20 for a month. All except first 2-3 days have been on the APAP machine, I guess technically VPAP. My average AHI for that time is 1.85 so I'm very happy. Never actually thought I'd be a FFM kind of guy.

My settings were PS 4.0 over 6.0-18.0 (cmH2O)

Ran across some videos by Lanky Lefty touting CPAP over APAP last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuZCByiG1nU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USZxTHalLI0

And I thought maybe I'd try it. To say I was not optimistic is an understatement. My latest lab sleep study (2019) specially said I could not tolerate CPAP. And back in 2012 when I started with CPAP therapy, I'm pretty sure my doc started with CPAP before moving on to BiPAP, APAP and eventually ASV.

But I set it to CPAP and 10 and let her rip. And my AHI was 1.2 for the night.

I find myself in a weird place and I (perhaps mistakenly) attribute it all to finally finding a FFM that works for me. I'll be staying at 10 on CPAP mode for a while.

Just for grins, I've knocked myself down to 8 on the pressure (CPAP mode) and I continue to get scores between 1.0 and about 2.4. I don't think I'm going to try for lower. I'll stay here unless my scores go up.