Mask and headgear for small head

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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FlanMaster
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Mask and headgear for small head

Post by FlanMaster » Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:39 am

Needing suggestions for masks and headgear for small heads.

Wife was prescribed CPAP therapy. She’s not a big person. Our medical care facility doesn’t have any mask or headgear in their database they can order that fits her. And the gear has to be ordered through them for it to be covered. There’s a system in place for special order but we’re not getting help with that.

She likes the under the nose full face mask based on the options they showed her. She wants the nasal options but they cause her sinuses to swell and close off. She’s tried several masks and headgear with the resmed f30, and similar dreamwear being the least problematic, but both seems to cause discomforting And the headgear being too large.

The technicians/clinicians,while relatively polite, don’t put forth any efforts to find alternatives outside of their database because they don’t get enough patients that the database doesn’t cover. And they just tend to ignore the very few patients who the standard options don’t work for.

We’ve tried searching for masks for youths but can’t find much information and can’t afford to spend hundreds of dollars just to test out a mask or two without any information to help. And we’ll need to have a specific piece of equipment we want to order when we take the request to the facility.

Has anyone ever dealt with this type of problem? What solution did you find?

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Pugsy
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by Pugsy » Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:03 am

Small female here and I have been in your wife's shoes when it comes to full face masks.
Small boned and all that.

I haven't tried the F30 or F30i but I have tried the similar version in the Respironics DreamWear full face mask.
They make a small size frame which I found did help with the fitting as the medium that came with it was simply too large and I couldn't make it work. Then I got the small frame and it was much better but still not quite ideal.
So then I took some strap pad covers and wrapped them around all parts of the frame so that I could snug things up a bit and that worked.
Did she try the small cushion with small frame option??? Or was it the medium frame version?
Unfortunately the stretchy part of the headgear seems to be a one size fits all.
Frame sizes do have a sizing choice though and it seems that the "standard" inventory by most DMEs is going to be the medium frame and cushion version and yes....it's going to be way to big for a small female/male.

Strap covers are easily a DIY project with just a bit of fleece material....don't have to be store bought.

Did she try the over the nose nasal cushion type of mask or one of the under the nose cushion masks like the ResMed N30 nasal mask? I can't wear any type of mask that fits over the bridge of my nose because it causes pressure on my turbinates and that causes immediate congestion. The under the nose cushion type of masks don't cause the congestion.
The N30 under the nose cushion mask is a nice little mask...probably my number 3 as a go to mask.
Eclipse being number 1....ResMed AirFit P10 being number 2 and the ResMed AirFit N30 being number 3.

In terms of pediatric sized masks....they don't make a pediatric full face mask that I am aware of. They try to use nasal masks on the kids....and yes the choices are very limited.

If she didn't try the Small frame on the DreamWear full face mask....see if you can get the small size to try.
Or if she did try the small frame and has it still yet....try wrapping a bit of fleece around all parts of the frame to snug it up a bit. It does help snug things up.

Alternately check out the mask I currently use....The Eclipse....no head gear at all and nothing putting pressure on my nose anywhere....but your DME probably won't want to order it. I know mine didn't/doesn't....so I don't use a DME.
There are some online sources that will file insurance and supply the Eclipse though. I just haven't got around to changing to one of those suppliers. People do get it paid for by insurance.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

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FlanMaster
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by FlanMaster » Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:22 am

Thank you for the prompt response. She tried the dreamwear nasal option, and all small options on everything, as available.

The dreamwear is essentially the silicone frame that hooks into a silicone strip that goes under the nose and has a more sparse headgear (straps) we’ve taken resmed headgear and 3rd party gear for dreamwear and cut the straps and resewed in an effort to find a workable solution but Tim his will be a pain to have to do this every time ah swaps out, plus it seems to be uncomfortable at the areas the sewn part leads the head.

We’ll look at the eclipse and check out the other nasal ideas you mentioned. If you think of anything else, please share, and thank you

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Pugsy
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by Pugsy » Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:40 am

Unless she absolutely just has to be using a full face mask because the mouth wants to open a LOT (minor mouth opening/leaking isn't the end of the world as long as it isn't massive or prolonged or disturbs sleep) then you might have her look more at the various nasal cushion masks that fit under the nostrils with nothing over the bridge of the nose.
The headgear will either be more adjustable or come in various sizes and not universal sizing.

At any rate minor mouth opening/leaking isn't a deal breaker especially if the alternative is a full face mask that simply can't be sized down small enough to fit her head which is going to leak anyway and be uncomfortable and cause sleep disruptions.

Gotta get the sleep first and foremost. Nothing much matters if a mask doesn't allow a person to actually sleep.

Try strap pad covers instead of surgery requiring sewing back together which creates lumps.

Have her look at the ResMed AirFit P10 nasal pillow mask....if she wants to try it I am pretty sure that I have a brand new still in box for Her version that I would be willing to donate to your wife.
If she hates it....just return it to me so it won't be wasted.
If she likes it....keep it as my gift to her.

I don't have the N30 to offer though. Sorry. When I ordered supplies a while back with FSA money that had to be spent or lose it, I got more P10s than I did N30s because I was short on time and hadn't even tried the N30 yet.
Side note....the P10 stretchy headgear can be used with the N30 under the nose cushion so a person could just buy the cushion and frame/short hose if they wanted to use the P10 headgear with it. Save a little money.

If interested send me a private message with name, address, etc.

Might help us out with ideas if you could tell us exactly which masks have been tried and didn't work out and why.
No sense in people offering up ideas that you already have exhausted.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

lynninnj
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by lynninnj » Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:58 am

Hi,

I just purchased a lot of the N30 small systems. Part no 64222. I liked that I got a break on the cost but now feel like I bought too many. I expect to have them by monday. I was going to see if anyone wanted to buy from me for far less than what they ask at dmes and online sellers.

I’m not trying to offend anyone with a sales pitch but do find these to be really great masks and as Pugsy said they should probably work for a small face. The system includes mask frame, headgear, and a single small cushion.

Private message me if interested.

Maybe Pugsy is willing to speak up on my behalf as I have promptly paid for masks from her previously and also bought a machine here as well. I know that’s kinda the reverse situation here but just know I’m not a kook.

_________________
Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset
Mask: ResMed AirFit N30 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Newbie who loves her machine!
Beware the schoolyard bullies, mean girls, and fragile male egos. Move along if you can’t be kind.

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FlanMaster
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by FlanMaster » Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:58 am

Thank you for the response and kind offer

Masks so far that they sent home with her after trying to fit multiple that I don’t know the name/model because we didn’t take those home.

F20 small
F30 small
Dreamwear full face small
Dreamwear nasal small

And with the above, even with adjustments to the straps/headgear (cutting and splicing) there were still high leaks and discomfort from (I presume) the odd fit

None of the pillow options they had in stock were below medium so there were no options there. I’m willing to try any mask with hope it will help her. Is the mask you’re offering a small?

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FlanMaster
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by FlanMaster » Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:05 am

Not sure how to reply to specific posts

I’ll send pms to the relevant people.

And I’m greatful for all replies/suggestions

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Pugsy
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by Pugsy » Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:07 am

FlanMaster wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:58 am
Is the mask you’re offering a small?
Yep. Sure is. Because that is the size that I use....small in everything. :lol: And like I said above...sometimes even the small size is too big for me.

This is what I am offering that is brand new still in box.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... adgear-her

The stretchy part of the headgear is adjustable with a little buckle that is tiny and a non issue IMHO.
Comes with the short hose/frame thing and 3 nasal pillows....extra small, small and medium.

Now I might have some other donated masks (tried by others but they didn't like them and couldn't return for some reason or other) that might be worth trying if gently used doesn't freak her out.
Never bothered me because they are easily cleaned/sanitized but I do understand that not everyone feels that way and that's fine.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

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Bluper
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by Bluper » Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:09 am

I use Areoflow for my DME. They carry the Bleep system and my Medicare covers most of the cost. The Eclipse Bleep may be to large for her nostrils but the orig original should work. Just a suggestion.

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lynninnj
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by lynninnj » Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:15 am

I forgot that the P10 has an extra small. Sounds like the starter pack which is probably a good way to go.

As a side note the N30 small has a size chart. The red part is 1 3/8 inch across. It has same strap as P10 which is also adjustable.

I have used the P10 as well and it is a nice mask but for me I just gravitate to N30 which surprisingly stays under the nose very well with a tiny bit of lanolin on the nares.

Pugsy might have similar size chart in hers.

https://imgur.com/a/kruJWWY This is what my size chart looks like for the N30.

_________________
Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset
Mask: ResMed AirFit N30 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Newbie who loves her machine!
Beware the schoolyard bullies, mean girls, and fragile male egos. Move along if you can’t be kind.

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FlanMaster
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by FlanMaster » Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:18 am

I’ve tried sending private messages to both of you but they’re in the “outbox” and don’t appear to be sending. Will keep working on it

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zonker
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by zonker » Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:26 am

FlanMaster wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:18 am
I’ve tried sending private messages to both of you but they’re in the “outbox” and don’t appear to be sending. Will keep working on it
no, it's confusing, but the pm stays in the outbox until the addressee picks it up.
people say i'm self absorbed.
but that's enough about them.
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lynninnj
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by lynninnj » Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:27 am

FlanMaster wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:18 am
I’ve tried sending private messages to both of you but they’re in the “outbox” and don’t appear to be sending. Will keep working on it
It says outbox until opened.

You got this. 😀

_________________
Machine: AirSense 11 Autoset
Mask: ResMed AirFit N30 Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Newbie who loves her machine!
Beware the schoolyard bullies, mean girls, and fragile male egos. Move along if you can’t be kind.

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Pugsy
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by Pugsy » Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:30 am

Try again to send the private message.
Normal procedure is that they will sit in the outbox until someone opens the PM and reads it and then it goes to the sent box.
While in the outbox it just means the person hasn't read it yet....BUT in your case I didn't get it at all to even open it and read it. I never got it.

Now don't panic if you do it now and it sits again in the outbox because I am leaving the house right now and won't be back until later to read any new PMs.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

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Cecioboe
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Re: Mask and headgear for small head

Post by Cecioboe » Wed Sep 13, 2023 2:41 pm

I have a fairly small head and use the ResMed Airfit N30. The straps are very adjustable and the nasal cushion is very soft. Although I wear the small cushion with the Dreamwear (and small frame with padding on the top and sides) the medium N30 cushion fits! I guess they run small.

I also tried the Dreamwear FullFace and just couldn't get it to seal - I think the shape is somewhat wide and too flat.
Fisher and Paykel also makes the Evora full face mask that might work - I've not tried it, tho.

There is also the P10 for her with basically the same headgear as the N30 and XS and small pillows sizes.

You might give one of those a try. Best wishes.
CPAP since May 25, 2021
Resmed Airsense 10 Autoset
N30 mask