(Changed titled) Grease in CPAP saga, continued with Airsense 10

roger84 · Post by **roger84** » Sat Jul 22, 2023 9:13 am

I bought an Airsense 10 from Second Wind CPAP last year, and I am very convinced that they sent me a very old or somehow ruined water chamber.

Long story short I have been dealing with CPAP-related issues in my current home for years now. I've attributed it to air quality, water quality, and inadequate cleaning, but this "like new" device continued to have a very specific issue even after resolving all the external issues. I finally determined that there is definitely a waxy substance coming from the seam of the bottom shell of the water chamber, that leaches into the water and ends up in my nasal passages and eyes. It takes hours for it to clear up and sometimes I have a killer headache all day. It's invisible, odorless, water soluble, and feels kind of like a glue stick.

My theory is that the chamber was way past its replacement date when I received the device. I'd actually exchanged the first device, minus all accessories - which I was fine with because I thought it was the device itself. They had me return only the main unit and not the chamber, which in hindsight wasn't very scientific of them. But because the issue was the same with the new device, all this time I assumed the cause was external.

I've already ordered a new chamber which is supposed to arrive today, but I've contacted SW about it and they replied with the usual boilerplate maintenance advice, so I replied with dozens of photos and screenshots of evidence that in fact I have been maintaining the device and my supplies religiously the past year. I have tried different filters, in-line filters, different hoses, different distilled water, different wipes etc in an attempt to find the cause and finally figured it out last week.

I might be out of warranty but I'm hoping they'd make a special exception because this device has caused me so much suffering. Besides poor sleep and greasy eye discharge I have reduced sense of smell, chest congestion, and I've lost wages due to all the physical effects. If they won't refund the device, what are my options for some kind of compensation/reparations? I'm willing to pursue this legally if it makes sense to do so. Any advice is appreciated.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Sat Jul 22, 2023 12:06 pm

Life is short. Replacement water chambers are cheap. Just move on.

LSAT · Post by **LSAT** » Sat Jul 22, 2023 12:46 pm

Resmed warranty on new water chambers is 90 days. You bought a used machine that most likely had no warranty. You are threatening to pursue it legally for a $25 item ???? You are wasting our time.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sat Jul 22, 2023 8:01 pm

On original Medicare, my copay for the washable chamber was in the neighborhood of $4.

bwexler · Post by **bwexler** » Sat Jul 22, 2023 8:35 pm

I believe normal scheduled replacement for the water chamber is 6 months.
I tend to replace mine every 9-15 months if I notice any build up of anything in the chamber. I use RO water, seldom distilled.
I have been following this rigorous replacement schedule for about 13 years. I vaguely recall actually cleaning a water chamber maybe 2 or 3 times.
Use your new water chamber in good health, and stop stressing over trivia. The stress will kill you faster than anything PAP might do.

zonker · Post by **zonker** » Sat Jul 22, 2023 8:47 pm

i have two water chambers. when one gets yucky, i pull it in and pop in the other. then i take the one that's yucky and put a polident tablet in it. (thanks, chunkyfrog!)

and then just trade them out. no muss, no fuss.

eta: i used to use distilled water until the price more than doubled during the covid-19 pandemic.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 11:06 am

Our home distiller has paid for itself several times over--
Especially during Covid, when the "supply chain was not working".
Our local water is very hard. Fixtures get retired early, resembling little caverns.

Dog Slobber · Post by **Dog Slobber** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:38 pm

Since posting here you've been convinced that the cause of ths waxy, greasy film has been your ResMed humidifier. Your filter. Your fingers. Your DreamStation.

How can you blame Second Wind for this problem, when it was also occurring on your previous machine?

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 1:29 am

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:38 pm
Since posting here you've been convinced that the cause of ths waxy, greasy film has been your ResMed humidifier. Your filter. Your fingers. Your DreamStation.

How can you blame Second Wind for this problem, when it was also occurring on your previous machine?

Because!

Conrad · Post by **Conrad** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:07 am

roger84 wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 22, 2023 9:13 am
I bought an Airsense 10 from Second Wind CPAP last year, and I am very convinced that they sent me a very old or somehow ruined water chamber.

Long story short I have been dealing with CPAP-related issues in my current home for years now. I've attributed it to air quality, water quality, and inadequate cleaning, but this "like new" device continued to have a very specific issue even after resolving all the external issues. I finally determined that there is definitely a waxy substance coming from the seam of the bottom shell of the water chamber, that leaches into the water and ends up in my nasal passages and eyes. It takes hours for it to clear up and sometimes I have a killer headache all day. It's invisible, odorless, water soluble, and feels kind of like a glue stick.

My theory is that the chamber was way past its replacement date when I received the device. I'd actually exchanged the first device, minus all accessories - which I was fine with because I thought it was the device itself. They had me return only the main unit and not the chamber, which in hindsight wasn't very scientific of them. But because the issue was the same with the new device, all this time I assumed the cause was external.

I've already ordered a new chamber which is supposed to arrive today, but I've contacted SW about it and they replied with the usual boilerplate maintenance advice, so I replied with dozens of photos and screenshots of evidence that in fact I have been maintaining the device and my supplies religiously the past year. I have tried different filters, in-line filters, different hoses, different distilled water, different wipes etc in an attempt to find the cause and finally figured it out last week.

I might be out of warranty but I'm hoping they'd make a special exception because this device has caused me so much suffering. Besides poor sleep and greasy eye discharge I have reduced sense of smell, chest congestion, and I've lost wages due to all the physical effects. If they won't refund the device, what are my options for some kind of compensation/reparations? I'm willing to pursue this legally if it makes sense to do so. Any advice is appreciated.

Compensation AND reparations?

Wow, just wow!

roger84 · Post by **roger84** » Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:23 pm

Thanks for the snarky victim-blaming - I appreciate that people remember my previous posts and have concluded that I'm either lying or doing something wrong.

The reason I blamed secondwind is I'm at my wit's end. It may not be their fault after all - and by the way, they do have a 6-month to 1-year money back guarantee - replacing the chamber has helped with airflow, but the buildup is still getting in and leaving me uncomfortable and low stamina during the day so that leaves some kind of pollutant in the indoor air. I have to assume it's gaseous particles that are getting through the filter, as far-fetched as it seemed it's the least magical explanation after ruling out the chamber.

Because finding the source of the contaminants seems impossible, I'm starting to think I have to throw in the towel and move out, all because of the CPAP. This wasn't happening at my previous place so I have to assume it's something about this house, maybe the wall paint or floor finish, or something weird about the ventilation. I really miss how I used to feel. It's been almost 4 years of this. The strange part is outside of using the CPAP the air quality seems fine, and I even got an air purifier just to be sure. Have also tried inline filters but they only help for a single night. You can feel the buildup inside them in the morning. Contrast this with the outer filter which feels dry. So it must be moisture that "activates" the pollutant.

In the meantime at least I have some coping strategies. Empty and wipe out the chamber every day, and turn off the ceiling fan at night. Hopefully those keep the symptoms down to a minimum enough for me to get out from this hellish experience.

Dog Slobber · Post by **Dog Slobber** » Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:38 pm

roger84 wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:23 pm
The reason I blamed secondwind is I'm at my wit's end. It may not be their fault after all

So when you publicly blame a party that could not have been responsible. That's OK, because after all you're at your wit's end.

roger84 wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:23 pm
Thanks for the snarky victim-blaming

But when others, point out it could not have been Second Wind, because you had the identical problem on previous machines, you get all offended and shout Victim Blamers

roger84 wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:23 pm
I appreciate that people remember my previous posts

Judging by you're tone, you don't seem very appreciative.

roger84 wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:23 pm
... have concluded that I'm either lying or doing something wrong.

Nobody has suggested that you are lying or doing something wrong [to cause the grease].

We have suggested you are wrong in what/who you believe to be the cause. And you were.

roger84 · Post by **roger84** » Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:40 pm

palerider wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 24, 2023 1:29 am

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:38 pm
Since posting here you've been convinced that the cause of ths waxy, greasy film has been your ResMed humidifier. Your filter. Your fingers. Your DreamStation.

How can you blame Second Wind for this problem, when it was also occurring on your previous machine?
Because!

This situation has been so intractable that I was willing to consider the possibility that it was a coincidence. If you felt the seams of the chamber, you might have thought the same.

roger84 · Post by **roger84** » Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:44 pm

bwexler wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 22, 2023 8:35 pm
I believe normal scheduled replacement for the water chamber is 6 months.
I tend to replace mine every 9-15 months if I notice any build up of anything in the chamber. I use RO water, seldom distilled.
I have been following this rigorous replacement schedule for about 13 years. I vaguely recall actually cleaning a water chamber maybe 2 or 3 times.
Use your new water chamber in good health, and stop stressing over trivia. The stress will kill you faster than anything PAP might do.

It would have been nice if replacing the chamber solved it. It did make sleeping easier, but it didn't alleviate the nightly buildup which does still affect me. At least I can rely on being able to breath at night easier. I went from having the symptoms of the buildup and frequent terrible nights, to just the symptoms of the buildup, which include eye and nose discomfort, lethargy, and headaches/pressure.

roger84 · Post by **roger84** » Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:50 pm

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:38 pm

roger84 wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:23 pm
The reason I blamed secondwind is I'm at my wit's end. It may not be their fault after all
So when you publicly blame a party that could not have been responsible. That's OK, because after all you're at your wit's end.

Why are you simping so hard for secondwind? What if it did turn out to be the chamber? Hindsight is 20/20 huh?

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:38 pm

roger84 wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:23 pm
... have concluded that I'm either lying or doing something wrong.
Nobody has suggested that you are lying or doing something wrong [to cause the grease].

We have suggested you are wrong in what/who you believe to be the cause. And you were.

You didn't "suggest", you were positive. And the emphatic assumption that it was not their fault implied that the problem was likely a common and simple one.

(Changed titled) Grease in CPAP saga, continued with Airsense 10

(Changed titled) Grease in CPAP saga, continued with Airsense 10

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP

Re: Options for compensation re: used CPAP