Severe mixed apnea at the age of 35

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:34 am

Herbert wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:27 am

Ok I guess this threat is dead now

Actually, it's your turn to report. What did your sleep guy say? I there anything new? Cause we were starting to rehash old stuff.

you're totally right. now I've got something new. but first of all: the sleep lab didn't happen, since I caught the flu and had fevers and stuffed nose. now I have to schedule a mew meeting.

BUT right afterwards I was on vacation. And during those 3 weeks my AHIs have been a dream. Mostly below 1 and only twice or so slightly higher than 1. So I thought I'd see a durable improvement. unfortunately things changed when we came back on Sunday. First night at home already showed an AHI of over 3, which I didn't have for weeks. then this night I had a 4, after an hour went back to sleep some more and increased to 11. During that second sleep of roughly 1,5 hours I had nearly constant periodic breathing. And I just can't figure out why. Basically why my AHI is getting worse since being back is really the big price question and the answer could potentially lead to the root cause of my issue. seems something around our apartment is contributing to my bad sleep. What I can already rule out is stress, as I'm still on a few days of additional vacation and things have basically been quiet. So I can only make guesses... What's clearly different is the mattress, which is softer in order to aid my shoulder which are suffering from the side sleeping since my diagnosis. and the pillow is different (side sleeper pillow) which I didn't have on vacation. Also during vacation I had 1 or 2 beer sin the evening, but alcohol at home doesn't shown a similar effect. Could it be mold? we have some little mold in our bathroom, but I wouldn't call it severe. Also we're drinking tap water at home, which we didn't during vacation. But we had it tested in the past and it didn't show any contamination. In general tap water in Germany is 100% drinkable, if the pipes in the house aren't made of lead.

Well, start duplicating/acting on everything that happened on vacation. Expand the list cause there's plenty of other things like bed orientation, weather, allergens, altitude, external noise, boffing frequency, bed size, etc.

Also analyze all the differences in your wife's sleep.

Hey Rubicon,

unfortunately I'm not making any progress in finding the root cause. My wife's sleep is the same as on vacation. Changing my pillow didn't have any effect. Tonight I will sleep on the uncomfortable futon just to try the mattress theory as well.

My numbers even have clearly worsened even in comparison to the time before the vacation. While I had those clusters of periodic breathing only every other night before the vacation, meanwhile I seem to have them each night. I had such episodes before, where my numbers went downhill for a few nights but usually they recovered quite fast and came back to my normal level.

I'm so frustrated and don't know whom to ask for help. My doctors are clearly overchallenged. Maybe you can have another look on the worst night I had in the last seven days. BTW I followed your advice to play with pressure and meanwhile I was on 9cmh2o. The funny thing is, it seems pressure doesn't make any difference. On vacation when my numbers where so much better, I was already on 9 cmh2o. So it feels like AHI for me is a rollercoaster with no way to have any impact on the ride

https://sleephq.com/public/8d406d93-971 ... f90020dcd2

Herbert wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 04, 2023 11:11 pm

Maybe you can have another look on the worst night I had in the last seven days.

I can, i did, looks like mildly to moderately fragmented sleep for the majority of the night then a bunch of SWJ that screws up the numbers in last 90 minutes.

Let's see a couple of the best nights while on vacation in SleepHQ.

Also the trend summary page from Oscar with a couple weeks before vacation, vacation, and a couple weeks after vacation.

Alright, I will provide the requested when I get home from work.

About the SWJ: I observed that a great proportion of my periodic breathing is happening after waking up. Usually I can see the deep breath of waking up, mostly followed by an apnea due to position change and then it continues in periodic either until I get up or I supposedly fall to sleep again. Now what is clear to me is, that while in transition from wake to sleep and other way round periodic breathing CAN happen. Also wake breathing is more chaotic than sleep breathing.

What's not clear to me and worrying me a bit is, why do I have not just chatoic but periodic breathing so regularly while (at least partially) awake? and does this hint to any underlying health problem? or is it just an abnormality of me? or is this even quite usual?

As preventive comment: just yesterday I had the 6 month check up with my cardiologist. we did another sono and stress ergometric. My heart is completely fine. So I'd doubt my csr is heart related.

OK so that's NOT PB, it's NOT CSR, it's SWJ which needs to be completely discounted from the discussion (or if you do want to include it, put it under "Sucky Notsleep").

I agree that SWJ is out of the picture concerning my sleep. But despite that I have most likely been awake whole this was recorded, it looks clearly like periodic breathing to me. You've got the repeating pattern of deepeness of breath going up and down and in between there's either a central event or hypopnea. What am I getting wrong?

Does it matter if you're not asleep?

I'm on vacation now (actually I'm always on vacation) so I'll write till I feel like doing something else.

If you look up the origin of SWJ you'll see I was the guy who invented it (although truth be told I stole it from an RPSGT/REEGT) but the point is my acronym, my definition.

Anyway SWJ had nothing to do with breathing, it had to do with EEG (insert summary of sleep EEG here). If someone is transitioning back and forth from Wake to Stage 1 within an epoch, and the mess continues for a while (don't know if we ever decided on what a "while" was) then we'd call that SWJ.

Meanwhile, your breathing control center has to figure out how to act with all this going on.

Heading down to the boat.

Ok then let me put my question differently: Should this specific periodicity that we can see in that part of data (no matter what you call it) alert me and make me discuss it with my doctor or is it completely irrelevant for my total health (not only sleep quality)?

And then what was promised earlier --> Links to my 3 best nights:
https://sleephq.com/public/1bce799c-128 ... 23904c47e4
https://sleephq.com/public/d46d5ba8-dc0 ... f0a1b3c70f
https://sleephq.com/public/29c00049-cef ... 09563b2b7f

And to the trend summmary of Oscar:
https://i.imgur.com/1bVgaTn.jpg

Herbert wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:24 am

Ok then let me put my question differently: Should this specific periodicity that we can see in that part of data (no matter what you call it) alert me and make me discuss it with my doctor or is it completely irrelevant for my total health (not only sleep quality)?

NFI.

And then what was promised earlier --> Links to my 3 best nights:

Best?

They all suck!

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 3:39 am

Herbert wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:24 am

Ok then let me put my question differently: Should this specific periodicity that we can see in that part of data (no matter what you call it) alert me and make me discuss it with my doctor or is it completely irrelevant for my total health (not only sleep quality)?

NFI.

And then what was promised earlier --> Links to my 3 best nights:

What a pitty

Best?

They all suck!

Your evaluation bursting of details really makes it easy for me to understand what excatly sucks and what I could do to improve. Maybe one more try, since last night felt pretty okay and AHI is low: https://sleephq.com/public/a9ce7a6d-af0 ... ff75a1c424

PS: not even a remark about my trend overview?

Night 1: 5 sessions
Night 2: 6 sessions
Night 3: 4 sessions

@herbert: With so many sessions per night, Why do you consider these nights "best"? Are you focusing on the numbers?

ozij wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:21 am

Night 1: 5 sessions
Night 2: 6 sessions
Night 3: 4 sessions

@herbert: With so many sessions per night, Why do you consider these nights "best"? Are you focusing on the numbers?

I had to get up in the morning since the baby was awake and the agreement with my wife was, that we take turns during vacation to let the other sleep. That's why the sessions are interrupted in the early morning for 1-2 hours. Also I did take some naps in the afternoon, which leads to one more session per day. I still consider those nights as good since I had no real periodic breathing. And "best" refers to best in AHI - not necessarily sleep quality. My sleep quality generally doesn't feel very high, so it's hard for me to be objective about it.

Maybe take a look at last night, there i only had 2 session. My smartwatch showed a personal high score of 85% sleep quality and I only woke up once (the break in between the two session). Maybe this night is of higher significance. https://sleephq.com/public/a9ce7a6d-af0 ... ff75a1c424

Yeah well don't have time for much more than a drive by today. As previously noted we're on permanent vacation, living out of suitcases, and this morning catching another flight. Traveling light using an Android kinda tough to go through those 5200 breaths, take screenshots, load em to imgur... plus I don't want to get caught staring at my phone when I'm yelling at my wife to get off Facebook and admire 2000 year old wonders and/or talk to family. I mean, there's more to life than the internet...

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 06, 2023 5:50 am

Yeah well don't have time for much more than a drive by today. As previously noted we're on permanent vacation, living out of suitcases, and this morning catching another flight. Traveling light using an Android kinda tough to go through those 5200 breaths, take screenshots, load em to imgur... plus I don't want to get caught staring at my phone when I'm yelling at my wife to get off Facebook and admire 2000 year old wonders and/or talk to family. I mean, there's more to life than the internet...

ah clear. take your time and enjoy vacation!!