OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

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lynninnj
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by lynninnj » Tue Nov 15, 2022 6:45 am

I just saw Nick talking about what shit the myair app is (something we all agree on) and a sales preview. What I didn’t see was him completely disparaging the data produced by the machine as a whole.

Gene, you should consider uploading your data. You will get excellent help here.

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robysue1
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by robysue1 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:33 am

dataq1 wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:13 pm
lynninnj wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:33 pm
If your doc won't trust Oscar because it's a piece of 3rd party software that he's never heard of....
I don't know that it the software that the staff has issue with. (ResScan reports exactly the same events etc as OSCAR, 'cuz ResScan only reports what the Cpap's firmware analysis, as does OSCAR).
I suspect that it's the analysis done by the cpap machine that is cause for their precaution.

SleepHQ had a recent video that questioned the on-board analysis of ResMed machines. (h/t to Thumper1947)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3jCsglrF38&t=22s
It sounds very much like you and/or your doc & his staff believe the raw data on the card simply can't be trusted.

And that the means they also don't believe the machine itself can't be trusted. Because an important part of the data recorded by the machine is pressure data. If the raw data can't be trusted, then why believe the machine is delivering the prescribed pressure?

And to carry this to the extreme, if the machine's raw data and the Resmed (or PR) engineers' Auto algorithms cannot be trusted to respond in an appropriate way because their flagging of events cannot be trusted, then we all should just accept fixed pressure bricks that record only usage data. And if/when we don't get better after starting CPAP therapy, it's our fault for not being trusting enough that the doc knows what he's doing.

Sorry, but I've been there and have the scars to prove it: My first sleep doc wound up forcing his quality PA to fire me as a patient when it was taking me months and months of hard work to make this crazy therapy work and his PA cared about the data and used that data to justify multiple PSGs that demonstrated my "not getting better" was not all in my head. That first sleep doc wanted me to be a mushroom using a CPAP brick that recorded nothing but usage data and was disappointed when I found a local DME (not owned by him) who set all their patients up with APAPs running in CPAP mode if the script specified CPAP. The DME believed that setting folks up with APAPs would make things easier in the long run if/when a sleep doc ordered a temporary or permanent switch to APAP therapy and the DME believed that letting a patient see a reported AHI every morning was an important part of building true compliance---i.e. the willingness of a patient to sleep all night long, every single night with the CPAP, instead of clock watching and tearing the mask off right at the 4 hour mark.

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lynninnj
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by lynninnj » Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:41 am

robysue1 wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:33 am
dataq1 wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:13 pm
lynninnj wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:33 pm
If your doc won't trust Oscar because it's a piece of 3rd party software that he's never heard of....
I don't know that it the software that the staff has issue with. (ResScan reports exactly the same events etc as OSCAR, 'cuz ResScan only reports what the Cpap's firmware analysis, as does OSCAR).
I suspect that it's the analysis done by the cpap machine that is cause for their precaution.

SleepHQ had a recent video that questioned the on-board analysis of ResMed machines. (h/t to Thumper1947)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3jCsglrF38&t=22s
It sounds very much like you and/or your doc & his staff believe the raw data on the card simply can't be trusted.

And that the means they also don't believe the machine itself can't be trusted. Because an important part of the data recorded by the machine is pressure data. If the raw data can't be trusted, then why believe the machine is delivering the prescribed pressure?

And to carry this to the extreme, if the machine's raw data and the Resmed (or PR) engineers' Auto algorithms cannot be trusted to respond in an appropriate way because their flagging of events cannot be trusted, then we all should just accept fixed pressure bricks that record only usage data. And if/when we don't get better after starting CPAP therapy, it's our fault for not being trusting enough that the doc knows what he's doing.

Sorry, but I've been there and have the scars to prove it: My first sleep doc wound up forcing his quality PA to fire me as a patient when it was taking me months and months of hard work to make this crazy therapy work and his PA cared about the data and used that data to justify multiple PSGs that demonstrated my "not getting better" was not all in my head. That first sleep doc wanted me to be a mushroom using a CPAP brick that recorded nothing but usage data and was disappointed when I found a local DME (not owned by him) who set all their patients up with APAPs running in CPAP mode if the script specified CPAP. The DME believed that setting folks up with APAPs would make things easier in the long run if/when a sleep doc ordered a temporary or permanent switch to APAP therapy and the DME believed that letting a patient see a reported AHI every morning was an important part of building true compliance---i.e. the willingness of a patient to sleep all night long, every single night with the CPAP, instead of clock watching and tearing the mask off right at the 4 hour mark.
It really sounds like you were just cut down and laid out to dry thru this entire process. Good for you for being so diligent in being your own advocate.

(side note: I really have to just do a proper quote function here because the quoted section above has been incorrectly attributed to me when really I was quoting you Robysue)

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Spare me the nitpicking. I have a serious health issue and I came here to learn to manage it by managing my OSA. Move along if you can’t be kind.

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robysue1
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by robysue1 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:56 am

dataq1 wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:13 pm
SleepHQ had a recent video that questioned the on-board analysis of ResMed machines. (h/t to Thumper1947)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3jCsglrF38&t=22s
Anyone with one eyeball connected to half a brain should be able to compare a ResScan report, an Oscar, and a SleepHQ report and realize that SleepHQ is reporting the same data with roughly the same degree of accuracy as ResScan and Oscar if those reports are looked at side by side.

SleepHQ doesn't do anymore "analysis" of the raw data than ResScan does. And all of that "analysis" is based directly on what the machine records and what it flags as an event.

Real analysis of the data is done by a human being looking at how the raw data recorded on the SD card is presented in ResScan, Oscar, or SleepHQ.

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dataq1
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by dataq1 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:15 am

robysue1 wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:56 am
Real analysis of the data is done by a human being looking at how the raw data recorded on the SD card is presented in ResScan, Oscar, or SleepHQ.
Agree with that, with the proviso that the "human" has some expertise in the field (as contrasted with my neighbor).

That said, the distinction that Niko (SleepHQ) appears to be making is that incorporation of desaturation data provides an additional level of sophistication while interpreting or analyzing the flowdata.
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ozij
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by ozij » Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:35 am

dataq1 wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:15 am

That said, the distinction that Niko (SleepHQ) appears to be making is that incorporation of desaturation data provides an additional level of sophistication while interpreting or analyzing the flowdata.
And OSCAR has had that ability to add oximeter data from a number of different oximeters from way back when it was merely a glint in SleepyHead's eye.

That video was a sales pitch for SleepHQ Pro - and its ability to get the data immediately from the Wellue ring oximeter.
(Note Uncle Nicko's cap and T-shirt).
-----
Two thoroughly unrelated OT questions:
Why did Nicko switch the ring from one hand to the other? (OK, not a serious question)

And why oh why oh why is the thingy the measures oxygen spelled oximeter? :| :|

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lynninnj
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by lynninnj » Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:13 am

dataq1 wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:15 am
robysue1 wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:56 am
Real analysis of the data is done by a human being looking at how the raw data recorded on the SD card is presented in ResScan, Oscar, or SleepHQ.
Agree with that, with the proviso that the "human" has some expertise in the field (as contrasted with my neighbor).

That said, the distinction that Niko (SleepHQ) appears to be making is that incorporation of desaturation data provides an additional level of sophistication while interpreting or analyzing the flowdata.
Nicks main criticism was with the myair SCORE most likely because the upgrade he is selling creates what he will likely claim is a more accurate score.

When he is “criticizing resmed” he is doing so specifically at the incredibly lame myair app. Something like: “you could have 100 apneas in a short period of time and still get a 95 score” and he is correct. It sucks.

I can get up 15 times a night to pee and still score a 95. Not helpful. I can get ahi of 100 and still score 95. The weights of different measures is arbitrary ridiculous and NOT reflective of good therapy measures.

And YES that is a specific criticism of the manufacturer but that doesn’t negate all other retrieved data.

His scoring will likely be much better.

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Spare me the nitpicking. I have a serious health issue and I came here to learn to manage it by managing my OSA. Move along if you can’t be kind.

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Rubicon
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by Rubicon » Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:54 am

So you want the short, concise answer or the long, drawn out answer?
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ozij
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by ozij » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:04 am

Rubicon wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:54 am
So you want the short, concise answer or the long, drawn out answer?
Me?
Short and concise is more your style... if I don't understand I'll ask for the long one

[edited to remove a bit of nonsense...]

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Last edited by ozij on Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by Rubicon » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:07 am

OK.

He needs an ASV 3 months ago.
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by dataq1 » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:09 am

ozij wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:35 am
OSCAR has had that ability to add oximeter data from a number of different oximeters from way back when it was merely a glint in SleepyHead's eye.
Does OSCAR do anything with that desaturation data, meaning does pulse-ox data impact the various respiratory indices? Or does pulse-ox data supply another parameter that MAY be used to evaluate events (but not by OSCAR).
That video was a sales pitch for SleepHQ Pro - and its ability to get the data immediately from the Wellue ring oximeter.
.
What will be really interesting is if his SleepHQ Pro, goes beyond simply reporting the events as observed by the current devices to integrating O2 into the evaluation of potential events.
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ozij
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by ozij » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:10 am

Rubicon wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:07 am
OK.

He needs an ASV 3 months ago.
Ah, you mean the answer to Gene.

And the long drawn out one that we can all learn from?

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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by Rubicon » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:15 am

No prob:

Image

Image
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by Rubicon » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:16 am

Change "PAV" to bilevel or EPR or any of that stuff.
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ozij
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Re: OSCAR chart to grade please? Newguy

Post by ozij » Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:20 am

dataq1 wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:09 am
ozij wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:35 am
OSCAR has had that ability to add oximeter data from a number of different oximeters from way back when it was merely a glint in SleepyHead's eye.
Does OSCAR do anything with that desaturation data, meaning does pulse-ox data impact the various respiratory indices?
No. OSCAR only reports, it does not attempt to give scores based on anything but the data recorded by the CPAP.
Or does pulse-ox data supply another parameter that MAY be used to evaluate events (but not by OSCAR)
.
Yes, because OSCAR does not do evaluations.

_________________
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Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: Machine: AirSense??? 10 AutoSet??? For Her CPAP Machine with HumidAir??? Heated HumidifierSoftware: Oscar; alternating masks
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.

Antoine de Saint-Exupery