Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

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leonardz
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Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by leonardz » Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:16 pm

Context:

I am new to CPAP therapy and decided i liked the minimal design of nasal pillow masks and went for the resmed P10. I then found I leaked a lot through my mouth and needed a chin strap with that mask. The chinstrap is very effective but bugs me. I do not want a full face mask - it is too confining and would interfere with reading before I go to sleep. So I would like to try a hybrid and almost decided on the resmed F30i until i realised the nasal portion was a cradle, not a pillow.

So my question is does anyone make a hybrid FFM with a pillow cushion rather than a nasal cradle? Is there a reason why a cradle would be preferable to a pillow in an FFM?

Thanks, particularly if manufacturers can communicate why they prefer the cradle to the cussion for an FFM.

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robysue1
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Re: Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by robysue1 » Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:58 pm

You might want to look at the Resmed Mirage Liberty full face mask with nasal pillows.

Here's a link to the product here at cpap.com: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... h-headgear

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zonker
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Re: Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by zonker » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:03 pm

leonardz wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:16 pm
Context:

I am new to CPAP therapy and decided i liked the minimal design of nasal pillow masks and went for the resmed P10.
welcome to the zoo!

may i recommend you use a firm foam cervical collar?

like this-
https://www.amazon.com/Vive-Neck-Brace- ... NyeXB0ZWRB

doesn't have to be THAT one, that's just an example. you can also find them at your local drugstore. look in the section where canes or bedpans or such are located.

i use this in conjunction with a scunci hairbands to keep my chin up and my lips sealed.

good luck!
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ozij
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Re: Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by ozij » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:30 pm

I used a hybrid with nasal pillows mask for years - for the same reasons you want one.
When the time came for a new mask - this was 2020 - I was offered the F30.
It's great for when you need a full face mask: It's and lightweight, soft, has diffused exhaust which means nothing hits you bed partner or bedclothes or your arms or the hose.
The cradle has separate "holes" for your nostrils.
Image
I love pillows masks, but I would not go back to a "hybrid with pillows mask"

I'm guessing that cradle masks became an option when the technology for creating the thinner silicon seals evolved.
Keep in mind that a hybrid with pillows has the additional weight of the pillows themselves and the pillows have to be held firmly and leaklessly in the mask, and yet be open to the part that covers your face - which means that type of mask is by definition heavier than a cradle type.

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Re: Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by chunkyfrog » Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:31 pm

Ask yourself if you breathe through your nose or mouth in the day time.
If you cannot breathe through your nose, perhaps you need to consult with an ENT.
Many of us mouth breathe as a habit from living with apnea for years.
No physical reason at all.
This was true in my case--I no longer use a full face mask.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by ChicagoGranny » Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:33 am

leonardz wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:16 pm
So my question is does anyone make a hybrid FFM with a pillow cushion rather than a nasal cradle? Is there a reason why a cradle would be preferable to a pillow in an FFM?

Thanks, particularly if manufacturers can communicate why they prefer the cradle to the cussion for an FFM.
This is Gramps. Granny wanted me to answer this. I used the Innomed Hybrid mask for years. I also tried the Liberty Hybrid mask. Now that I use the ResMed F30i, I agree with Ozij. The older hybrid masks with pillows were heavier and had larger footprints. The headgear for these masks was bulkier, and the fasteners were old technology. The nasal pillows also had a tendency to pop out of the nose. That may be the main reason the manufacturers don't favor pillows on a low-profile hybrid mask. I think you will find most people that switched to the newer mask will, like Ozij and me, never go back.

Give the ResMed F30i a try.

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Re: Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by McSleepy » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:22 pm

I'm interested in this, as well. Not that I have problems with mouth breathing or that there's anything wrong with my current mask... other than the fact that it has been discontinued for years and there's nothing similar on the market, and I don't know how much longer I can keep my current one alive. I've tried multiple alternatives, including the ResMed F30i. My problem with the latter is the opposite of what's supposed to be its advantage over nasal-pillow-type masks: the softness of the cushion. The problem is my pressures are very high (over 21 cm H2O) and I also sleep face down, so no matter what I do with straps and everything, it leaks like crazy (with loud "farting" noises). If I lay on my back and don't move much, it works great, but I can't do that - my AHI goes through the roof and I can't sleep; I'd need pressures over 25... The ResMed Mirage Liberty seems to have a rigid mouth frame and pillows, so I wonder if I should try that one, too.

McSleepy

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Re: Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:47 pm

McSleepy wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:22 pm
I also sleep face down
Exactly how are you sleeping face down? Both of the FFMs you mention vent on the front. Are you not blocking the vents?

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Re: Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by McSleepy » Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:53 am

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:47 pm
McSleepy wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:22 pm
I also sleep face down
Exactly how are you sleeping face down? Both of the FFMs you mention vent on the front. Are you not blocking the vents?
My Breeze is heavily modified, one of the modifications being a duct rerouting the vent up top. The F30i has two vents, with the second being up top, at the hose junction fitting, just for that purpose. I hope the Mirage Liberty also has the additional vent or I'd have to modify it, too. I've sent a message to my sleep doctor's' office to see if I can get a sample (they carry ResMed products, which is how I got the F30i).

McSleepy

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Re: Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:29 am

McSleepy wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:53 am
I hope the Mirage Liberty also has the additional vent
It doesn't.
McSleepy wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:22 pm
I also sleep face down
Have you considered using a face-down pillow?
McSleepy wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:53 am
My Breeze is heavily modified, one of the modifications being a duct rerouting the vent up top. The F30i has two vents, with the second being up top, at the hose junction fitting, just for that purpose.
You sound like a danger to yourself.

The two vents on the F30i are both there for a reason - to blow off rebreathed air. Maybe your high pressures allow this with one vent closed, but I wouldn't try it.

Good luck and look into face-down pillows. If you decide to try one, don't go for the cheap ones.

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Re: Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by McSleepy » Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:44 am

ChicagoGranny wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:29 am
McSleepy wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:53 am
I hope the Mirage Liberty also has the additional vent
It doesn't.
McSleepy wrote:
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:22 pm
I also sleep face down
Have you considered using a face-down pillow?
McSleepy wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:53 am
My Breeze is heavily modified, one of the modifications being a duct rerouting the vent up top. The F30i has two vents, with the second being up top, at the hose junction fitting, just for that purpose.
You sound like a danger to yourself.

The two vents on the F30i are both there for a reason - to blow off rebreathed air. Maybe your high pressures allow this with one vent closed, but I wouldn't try it.

Good luck and look into face-down pillows. If you decide to try one, don't go for the cheap ones.
Your comments are noted, thank you. I've been doing this successfully for 20 years now, I have the education and the professional expertise; I appreciate your concern but I think I know what I'm doing. :wink:

McSleepy

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leonardz
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Re: Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by leonardz » Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:26 pm

Thanks to everyones comments.

1 My 1 month trial is now over and I have purchased
Airsense 11 auto + F30i mask
Tonight is my first night - still have note used this yet

2 Choice of mask was informed by your comments above and my wife's complaints about air leaks through my mouth even with Halo chin strap and a cervical collar to hold my mouth shut. I am hopeful that with a FFM my mouth exhalation will not be disturbing to her.

3 The biggest issue after the test - everyone i tried has airsense 10s m with no modems - the modem is apparently the bottleneck in resmed production. They all tried to push that rather than wait for the airsense 11. I got lucky - one vendor called back and asked me if i still wanted the 11. Of course i said yes.

So : are airsense 11s really that hard to come by generally? Or is this an Ontario, Canada only shortage of supply?

Anyhow, thanks again for all your help.

Len

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Re: Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by clownbell » Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:11 pm

To Leonardz - have you considered a pillow mask with mouth taping. Much more effective IMO than chin strap.

If you are not a mouth breather during the day, and do not have any nasal plumbing problems, perhaps you are like other PAPers whose mouth falls open when super-relaxed. Be aware that some tapes are VERY tough on the skin when removing. I happen to like MedVance and 3M kind removal and nexcare because they seal well and do not involve pain upon removal. Just a thought to consider. You will also skip the disadvantages of FFM -- maybe claustrophobic, maybe leaks, etc.
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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Does anyone make Hybrid (minimal contact ) FFM with nasal pillow instead of nasal cradle?

Post by ChicagoGranny » Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:47 pm

leonardz wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:26 pm
F30i mask
Tonight is my first night - still have note used this yet
Watch some youtube videos on fitting and adjusting the F30i. The videos can be very helpful.