Dream Station 2 and Oscar Update

BSH392 · Post by **BSH392** » Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:26 am

Any update from the Oscar team on their progress with Dream Station 2 integration? Thanks

HairyReasoner · Post by **HairyReasoner** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:15 am

BSH392 wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:26 am
Any update from the Oscar team on their progress with Dream Station 2 integration? Thanks

From what I've read on another board, it isn't looking good. Apparently Phillips Respironics has chosen to encrypt the data so it can only be read by specific, targeted devices. So, now it isn't only a matter of reverse engineering a proprietary format.

GrumpyHere · Post by **GrumpyHere** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:47 am

Given what was written, it sounds like OSCAR team has given up on DS2.

Sleeprider Wrote:

Philips is in the driver's seat on this, and has also encrypted the data on new DS-2 machines. In my opinion, a DS 2 simply gives you a brick. From now on, you will pay your doctor for your CPAP data. If that is what you want, go get it. If you don't think that is right, get a Resmed as a replacement.

Buddy, I don't know if the encryption is insurmountable, but it sure does represent a challenge. Philips official position is

Philips has determined that as a company we must encrypt data for privacy and security reasons. When writing a prescription file to an SD Card using Care Orchestrator, such a file will be created for a specific target device that can decrypt the prescription and other files that were created by Care Orchestrator
This statement means they intend to deny patients access to detailed data. The data may have keys that are specific to the machine serial number or have another decryption algorithm. So far, we cannot support Philips Respironics machines in Oscar until that problem is solved. It would be nice to think we could call on Philips for help on this, but considering their obvious efforts to prevent patients from seeing their own data, and making them rely in a DME or physician, I'll let you calculate the odds. Oscar is a non-profit, volunteer effort to enable patients to access their data. Philips is setting an encryption on new machines to prevent this. How much effort would you suggest the volunteers expend to help Philips ? People that want data without paying doctor fees or other access, will probably look elsewhere, and should.

BSH392 · Post by **BSH392** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:56 am

HairyReasoner wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:15 am

BSH392 wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:26 am
Any update from the Oscar team on their progress with Dream Station 2 integration? Thanks
From what I've read on another board, it isn't looking good. Apparently Phillips Respironics has chosen to encrypt the data so it can only be read by specific, targeted devices. So, now it isn't only a matter of reverse engineering a proprietary format.

Another good reason to move on to ResMed, which is where I am headed. Maybe keep the DreamStation 2 as a backup device. Thanks.

HairyReasoner · Post by **HairyReasoner** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:09 am

BSH392 wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:56 am

HairyReasoner wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:15 am

BSH392 wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:26 am
Any update from the Oscar team on their progress with Dream Station 2 integration? Thanks
From what I've read on another board, it isn't looking good. Apparently Phillips Respironics has chosen to encrypt the data so it can only be read by specific, targeted devices. So, now it isn't only a matter of reverse engineering a proprietary format.
Another good reason to move on to ResMed, which is where I am headed. Maybe keep the DreamStation 2 as a backup device. Thanks.

The question I have: Is Resmed also moving in that direction? I also recall seeing something about encryption to protect patient data now that it's being piped into the cloud. I can't recall where I read that. I don't know if it applies to the new 11 machine.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:31 am

Everybody blames "the cloud"--yet they jump onto it like lemmings into the sea,
and cheerfully use it as an excuse for another paywall.
It is only a matter of time until the codes are broken--or leaked.
In the meantime, we get a good idea who we can trust.

Desert mans wife · Post by **Desert mans wife** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:34 am

HairyReasoner wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:09 am

The question I have: Is Resmed also moving in that direction? I also recall seeing something about encryption to protect patient data now that it's being piped into the cloud. I can't recall where I read that. I don't know if it applies to the new 11 machine.

However, from what I've seen from the data from my brother's Resmed 10(using their software), and my own Dreamstation 1 data (using Respironic's software), Resmed gives you a lot more detailed data with their software than Respironics does with theirs. If the pattern holds true with DS2 and Resmed 11, if you like to actually view your detailed data, Resmed will still be better even if they encrypt it so OSCAR can't use it.

Buddy0329 · Post by **Buddy0329** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:55 pm

I bit the bullet and bought an Autoset 10 last night for $460 out of pocket. Not interested in playing hostage to Philips over their recall fiasco and their desire to sheild me from my own treatment results. My DS1 was already 4.5 years old so it was almost "due" either way.

Of course this morning, my insurance finally decided to cover me for a new machine and waive the 5-year rule. Perfect timing!?! However, the DME i purchased from was not on their list; I would have had to use my regular DME who is selling the AS10 for $850 and would have cost me $170 out of pocket (instead of $460).

Turning lemons into lemonade I'll still be able to use my insurance on a AS11 later this year or early next year If I choose to do so and have a new condition AS10 as a backup.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:11 pm

Today, I picked up my quarterly supplies at the DME.
(Medicare coverage--otherwise it would be cpap.com.)
I asked if they noticed any sales trends since "foamgate".
They confirmed that Resmed sales are UP.

ThisEndUp · Post by **ThisEndUp** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:28 pm

"Right of repair" laws are used to allow owners and independent mechanics to read data captured by automobiles.
Has anyone thought about applying these laws to the data from CPAP and other medical devices?
If these laws don't apply directly, is there a group pushing for similar laws for medical devices?

zonker · Post by **zonker** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:52 pm

ThisEndUp wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:28 pm
"Right of repair" laws are used to allow owners and independent mechanics to read data captured by automobiles.
Has anyone thought about applying these laws to the data from CPAP and other medical devices?
If these laws don't apply directly, is there a group pushing for similar laws for medical devices?

well, kinda-sorta. google 'does "right to repair" include cpap machines' and start reading. it mainly branches out to ventilators as that's involved with hospitals, in the time of covid-19, trying to hack them.

ifixit.com has made mention of wanting to collect repair manuals for cpap machines, as well.

also, there seems to be some bills up in state legislations to try to get right to repair associated with medical equipment.

all in all, quite the rabbit hole and i don't have the patience to go through it all and report anything.

if you, or someone ELSE does, here's hoping they post about it.

KrisCrossed · Post by **KrisCrossed** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:14 pm

I'm new to CPAP and my provider gave me a script for a Dreamstation 2. Did not know about OSCAR at the time, but I would like to be able to use it. I don't know if this would be helpful, but I did a search to find out if Care Orchestrator can export the data as CSV files. If I can get my provider to do this for me, I could send the data as CSV and provide the encrypted files to match. Does anyone on the OSCAR team think this might be helpful? I'm going to ask my provider for this data regardless.

https://www.careorchestrator.com/proxy/ ... topic1.htm

Exporting Secure Reports

Care Orchestrator provides the ability to export secure patient reports that can only be opened with a password.

Navigate to the Reports and Templates tab. The Patients Report tab displays.

After selecting any desired Filters, click on the Export Report drop-down arrow. Download options display, including CSV, CSV (Secure), XLS, and XLS (Secure).

If CSV (Secure) or XLS (Secure) is selected, the Download Secure File window displays. The password used to secure the report displays. An option to copy the password that opens the report at a later time is provided. Click Download to download the file.

Note: In order to open secure files, your computer may require additional software. Examples of these programs are WinZip (https://www.winzip.com/) for both Windows and Mac; 7Zip (https://www.7-zip.org/) for Windows; or BetterZip (https://macitbetter.com/) for Mac.

zonker · Post by **zonker** » Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:40 pm

KrisCrossed wrote: ↑
Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:14 pm
I'm new to CPAP and my provider gave me a script for a Dreamstation 2.

this is some months ago, but there is something you can help out with-

BlueDragon wrote: ↑
Fri May 28, 2021 8:54 am
We welcome more Dreamstation 2 data to help with figuring out how Philips is encoding or encrypting the data in their new model. Please make a zip of your complete SD card and upload it to my Dropbox folder: https://www.dropbox.com/request/REp6AH7LCGyeOcXfOokH. Please include your forum name in the file name so we can get back to you if we have any questions.

Thanks for your help!

hknox · Post by **hknox** » Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:36 pm

I had a dialog with Philips on this. I pointed out to them that it is a violation of HIPAA, specifically HIPAA 45 CFR 164.524 to collect medical records on a patient and not disclose them to the patient, unless it is a Psychologist's notes or part of an open criminal investigation. I had a chat with their service person, and we discussed the encryption and OSCAR. He said there was no guarantee if Philips made a change that OSCAR would follow through, and I specifically said that what was needed was to record to chip unencrypted, OSCAR could probably take it from there. He told me not to make suggestions, they had engineers who would work on it, I reiterated that they need not have an unencrypted online stream, just unencrypted data on the chip so open source could make it available to the users. He created a ticket and I haven't heard back yet, but it does seem like they at least listened to that point.

Hope this helps.

zonker · Post by **zonker** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:30 pm

hknox wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:36 pm
He told me not to make suggestions, they had engineers who would work on it, I reiterated that they need not have an unencrypted online stream, just unencrypted data on the chip so open source could make it available to the users. He created a ticket and I haven't heard back yet, but it does seem like they at least listened to that point.

Hope this helps.

not sure that was actually listening. the way i read it is the were telling you to pipe down and that the grownups had it under control. along with a lot of eye rolling on their part.

or maybe i'm just a cynical so and so.

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