Phillips / Philips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread

[ChicagoGranny]

Sure, it may be a Dreamstation 2 with encryption, but probably better to have a CPAP machine than none at all.

Someone who already has an optimized therapy using the original Dreamstation might do well working off the machine display reports on a Dreamstation 2 with the dastardly encryption.

[ChicagoGranny]

After "foamgate", I wonder how many were burned enough
to not trust anything made by resperonics . . .

Foamgate doesn't bother me. But encryption makes me think Respironics is managed by damn assholes.

[Pugsy]

But encryption makes me think Respironics is managed by damn assholes.

I don't think Respironics has a monopoly on assholes. I am not real fond of ResMed's business practices (restrictions, they would sue their mother, etc). I think some assholes reside over on the ResMed side as well.
None of them really care about us and without us and our needs....they wouldn't have much of a market to cause them to kiss DMEs and doctors asses. If they didn't make such good products I would tell them to kiss my ass but while I am well known to cut my nose off to spite my face...this isn't one of those times.

My crystal ball says there is a good chance we will see encryption in ResMed's future as well.
All because the DMEs and doctors want to lock us out and keep playing the power control game. Force the use of their lame website crap like MyAir and DreamMapper to see the data that THEY want us to see which is severely limited.
What's wrong with just letting us decide what we need or want????
I might need to do what Wulfman has done...stockpile enough machines to last the rest of my life and tell all of them to go to hell. That option is looking more and more attractive as time goes by.

[Grumpy48]

After "foamgate", I wonder how many were burned enough
to not trust anything made by resperonics . . .

Foamgate doesn't bother me. But encryption makes me think Respironics is managed by damn assholes.

I may be wrong, but me thinks Respironics may have been pressured by doctors and/or others in the medical profession to encrypt the data so as to make it impossible or difficult for users to get advice from forums like this to optimize the therapy settings. The CPAP settings may be looked at as being a 'prescription' which shouldn't be arbitrarily changed by just anyone. There's good guidance on the internet and there's also bad. Sometimes not easy to discern between the two. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the future Resmed might also encrypt data or make it less than easy to access. Enjoy the benefits of OSCAR while you can

[Grumps]

For those worried about foam bits (not the chemical bits) getting into the lungs,
wouldn't a inline AB filter temporarily address the problem?

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/generi ... nes-1-pack

generic-inline-outlet-bacteria-filter-cpapdotcom.jpg

Yes, but it would not address the gas off issue.

[Grumps]

According to this article https://hme-business.com/articles/2021/ ... ilips.aspx

Philips reported that it received reports of possible patient impact due to foam degradation. The potential risks of being exposed to the particulate include headache, irritation, inflammation, respiratory issues, and possible toxic and carcinogenic effects.

The potential risks of chemical exposure due to off-gassing from the foam include headache, irritation, hypersensitivity, nausea or vomiting, and possible toxic and carcinogenic effects. Philips reported it has not received reports regarding patient impact related to chemical emissions.

So, sounds like they have had reports of degraded foam getting into the air supply but not reports of chemical off-gassing. To be fair, if anyone got cancer from this there would be zero way of knowing.

It’s been said that Philips took a new boxed unit and tested it for the gassing off of the foam and the findings were positive.

[zonker]

It’s been said that Philips took a new boxed unit and tested it for the gassing off of the foam and the findings were positive.

who's been doing the saying?

[Grumpy48]

It’s been said that Philips took a new boxed unit and tested it for the gassing off of the foam and the findings were positive.

The most off-gassing will occur when foam is new and greatly tapers off as it is exposed to air, so if off-gassing was tested by Philips for a unit straight from a new boxed unit it may be no surprise if the VOC's were found to be positive. I'd like to see some data as to the level of the VOC's at 6 months or a year or more.
If you paint a room you'll smell the paint for a day or two and then the odor quickly diminishes as the paint cures to a point where it's not detectable.

[ChicagoGranny]

if off-gassing was tested by Philips for a unit straight from a new boxed unit it may be no surprise if the VOC's were found to be positive. I'd like to see some data as to the level of the VOC's at 6 months or a year or more.

How about after the first 24 hours?

Volatile organic chemicals of concern (Dimethyl Diazine and Phenol, 2,6-bis (1,1-dimethylethyl)-4-(1-methylpropyl) are not detectable 24 hours after the first ‘out of box’ use of the device.
Levels of diethylene glycol detected were within an acceptable margin of safety.
The degradation by-products Toluene Diamine and Toluene Diisocyanate are classified by IARC as Group 2B carcinogens. This category is used for chemicals where there is limited evidence of carcinogenicity in humans and less than sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in experimental animals.

https://www.gov.uk/drug-device-alerts/n ... slash-mhra

[amenite]

if off-gassing was tested by Philips for a unit straight from a new boxed unit it may be no surprise if the VOC's were found to be positive. I'd like to see some data as to the level of the VOC's at 6 months or a year or more.

How about after the first 24 hours?

Volatile organic chemicals of concern (Dimethyl Diazine and Phenol, 2,6-bis (1,1-dimethylethyl)-4-(1-methylpropyl) are not detectable 24 hours after the first ‘out of box’ use of the device.
Levels of diethylene glycol detected were within an acceptable margin of safety.
The degradation by-products Toluene Diamine and Toluene Diisocyanate are classified by IARC as Group 2B carcinogens. This category is used for chemicals where there is limited evidence of carcinogenicity in humans and less than sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity in experimental animals.

https://www.gov.uk/drug-device-alerts/n ... slash-mhra

It's a bit of cold comfort to know the it's all just fine because I've already inhaled all the Dimethyl Diazine and Phenol, 2,6-bis (1,1-dimethylethyl)-4-(1-methylpropyl) that's been off gassed, and that there's only "limited evidence of carcinogenicity in humans" for the degradation by-products Toluene Diamine and Toluene Diisocyanate that continue to be produced. That's just super. Does "limited evidence" mean it just hasn't been studied sufficiently to know?

Wondering also if anyone has studied the effects of degraded foam particles as small as 2.69UM in a pressurized circuit, inhaled in various concentrations, for perhaps 8 hours nightly, for 4, 6 or 10 years? What might that risk look like? I get that the VOCs have dissipated after a short time. There's potentially more going on here that may not become evident until an extended period of time has elapsed.

[ChicagoGranny]

You will be fine. No one will develop cancer as a result of this tiny exposure.

Ever sat in a new car with the windows rolled up on a warm day? Every pumped gasoline when the wind was still? Ever cranked a lawnmower? Ever smelled burnt toast? Ever grilled hamburgers over charcoal?

[Grumps]

Ok so I went into my dreamstation 1 bi/pap . I removed the foam like the Australian bloke in his video. Put it back together and the machine went into choo choo train mode . Meaning i couldn’t even keep my mask on. My usual settings are 17 in 15 out.
I thought it would just stay at the same level but with a slight increase Do to the foam blockage not being there. So I put a roll medical gauze into the 2 areas where the foam was before. And man did this help out tremendously. It was Almost as if I didn’t pull the cancer causing foams out. (no really this surprised me) But then it dawned on me is the gauze susceptible to a mold of some kind? Anyone have any thoughts on this please ?

I did the same thing. I took it apart again and stuffed new face mask in the chambers reassemble and I still can’t exhale, there’s no pause between inhale and exhale. Maybe that is a fail safe for them to know that it’s be tampered with, either way I sure was not going to keep using it just for the fact that Philips advised to stop using it. Please post any solution for the pressure if you find one.
Thanks

[Grumps]

So, I've been following this thread. I watched several videos on how to remove the foam and decided the least damaging way was to use a coat hanger to fish it out of the plastic case. Then, I put everything back together. Tested the unit and the air blowing out was way to strong. It was very difficult to exhale. Went into Therapy mode and adjusted and adjusted and lowered the pressure to the minimum allowable by the device. It still was way too strong to use. BTW, the foam was melting and felt like a gooey mess.

After several attempts to get the pressure to a usable level, finally gave up. Just called the doc had him send a new script over to my DME. Then called the DME and said I wanted to come pick it up. They said to pay online, then they would call me to come get it. I'm paying out of pocket for a Res Med with humidifier to the tune of $758. When Philips gets their act together, I'll send in their unit for repair or replacement and use it as a back up. For me, it is worth it. Waiting a year is not an option. I'm already tired and my blood pressure is starting to go up.

Just wanted to alert folks that removing that foam may not work.

I have the same problem the pressure is so high I can’t exhale, so I stuffed new face mask where the foam was no change in pressure. I sure was not going to use it with the foam issue, now I still have to pay for a useless machine.

[GrumpyHere]

For those worried about foam bits (not the chemical bits) getting into the lungs,

Yes, but it would not address the gas off issue.

Addressed by the parenthesis.

But some sort activated carbon canister rig might be able to deal with the VOC.
Somewhat Rube Goldberg vis-à-vis removing the cause of the problem.

[palerider]

I have no idea why you think people should refuse a replacement machine from Respironics unless you think acceptance precludes suing them or something.

Because the DS2 has encrypted (or at least obfuscated) data, so it's worthless for people such as ourselves to try and optimize our therapy. (for one thing).

For another, Philips and their new reputation.