Comparing the Philips Respironics DreamStation BiPAP AutoSV (ASV) with the ResMed AirCurve 10 ASV BiLevel?

Needing to replace my old PR ASV machine soon, I'd like information to decide between the current Respironics and Resmed ASV models. Here are some questions I have regarding both of them:
1__ During the initial insurance compliance period, how is the compliance data forwarded to the insurance company: via a modem, or in another technology, and is that technology included in the purchase, and is the property of the user, or is it only borrowed from the RT ?
2__After the compliance period is completed, can the device used to transmit data be removed (modem, etc.) , and can this removal be done by the user?
3__does the machine use its own internal memory for AHI data, or a SD card, and is it removable by the user when a new card is needed?
4__is there a dedicated on/off button on the machine?
5__what is the noise level?
6__is the Ti setting actually applied all the time by the machine, including in BIpap/Bilevel mode, or does it only come in effect while the ASV function gets engaged by a respiratory event?

These are questions that may be easy for some people to answer. There is an other, very important and technical question, that is much more difficult to answer:

7__what is the IPAP-to-EPAP responsiveness of the machine to the user's need to breathe fully, what is the AI algorithm it uses?

I once talked to a Respironics tech, (who didn't know I wasn't an RT), and when I asked how does the machine know when to turn over from IPAP to EPAP, he replied "when the maximum pressure is reached". I couldn't understand that, but he couldn't explain it. Does the machine determine that the maximum pressure is reached when the lung is full and kind of opposes new air coming in? I kind of doubt it, because it has happened to me quite a few times, that after yawning and exhaling fully, thus needing to inspire a lot of new air, the next inspiration got cut off too short by the IPAP turning over to EPAP in less than a second, - while in principle, the Respironics AI is supposed to decide its IPAP/EPAP rhythm based on the last 4 inspirations (if I remember correctly, from a previous description on the old Respironics website).

Does anyone know and can explain how the Respironics AI functions? And what about the Resmed AI, what is its monitoring span, in terms of number of inspirations or time elapsed, and how does its AI decide when to turn over from IPAP to EPAP?

I would greatly appreciate answers to the questions above, and any remarks and info on these machines that could enlighten the user's respiratory experience with these machines - Thank you!

4betterO2 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:18 am

Resmed AI

I'll let a BiLevel user answer your questions, but the machine algorithms should not be called AI. There are no CPAP machines that use artificial intelligence.

I am not going to attempt to answer all the questions mainly because there is no way to know the answer because the question is asking for information not available to the lay person.

Like the algorithm differences....unless someone digs into the patents we can't explain the differences.

1....both ResMed and Respironics use cellular transmission to transmit data to the home web sites so DMEs can access the data.
It is built in to the machine in most situations. ResMed for sure. Not sure about Respironics DreamStation models.

2...ResMed...no it can't be removed as it is built in. I am unsure about Respironics since I have never used a DreamStation

3...both have an internal memory storage plus the SD card storage option. So both can be used. What gets retained in the internal memory itself varies though. Respironics stores more details in the internal memory than ResMed does.

4....both have dedicated on/off buttons

5....ResMed tends to be a little more quiet...at least from my past experience with a ResMed ASV and the Respironics ASV in the System One model. Not a huge difference though. I seemed to get more Darth Vadar breathing noises from the Respironics than with the ResMed using the same mask.

These are all that I can answer.

All I know is that the Resmed ASV seems to be preferred by many based on the programming.

As long as you insist on wasting time on meaningless trivialities, you'll get no help from me.

palerider wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:55 pm

As long as you insist on wasting time on meaningless trivialities, you'll get no help from me.

4betterO2 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:18 am

2__After the compliance period is completed, can the device used to transmit data be removed (modem, etc.) , and can this removal be done by the user?

If you care to open a ResMed machine (probably voiding the warranty), you can disconnect the modem. Disconnecting is sufficient and easier than removing it. If you search YouTube, you'll find several videos showing how to do that. (I have disconnected the modem in one AirSense 10 Autoset. The process was straightforward though it helps if you have a set of case opening tools like are used for cell phones etc.)

Seems data transmission has changed on the new models as a DME told me that both machines now have Bluetooth and their data is captured via a phone app and then sent out. I feel Bluetooth is a porous networking technology so I hope it will be easy to disable it...

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:54 am

...ResMed tends to be a little more quiet...at least from my past experience with a ResMed ASV and the Respironics ASV in the System One model.

Although this is a past experience, can you compare how closely these machines could sense your needs and provide a good respiratory experience?

BlueDragon wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:52 pm

4betterO2 wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:18 am

2__After the compliance period is completed, can the device used to transmit data be removed (modem, etc.) , and can this removal be done by the user?

If you care to open ResMed machine (probably voiding the warranty), you can disconnect the modem. Disconnecting is sufficient and easier than removing it. If you search YouTube, you'll find several videos showing how to do that. (I have disconnected the modem in one AirSense 10 Autoset. The process was straightforward though it helps if you have a set of case opening tools like are used for cell phones etc.)

Thanks for the tip - so maybe the new machines have both a modem and BlueTooth
I'm particularly looking for subjective impressions of how the machines feel to the user, I saw a new thread comparing them in some deep detail so I'll ask that question there also. My experience has varied with my Respironics ASV, I get the most air when the ASV kicks in, otherwise air delivery is good but not as great, and there are hiccups in IPAP turnover when I yawn. Wondering if the Resmed ASV program does that too.

4betterO2 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:18 pm

Although this is a past experience, can you compare how closely these machines could sense your needs and provide a good respiratory experience?

Not really, sorry. Even if I could it would be irrelevant. My needs are my needs and your needs are your needs.
You are asking questions that are impossible to give answers to.

You need to try both and make your own decisions.

I got a new ResMed AirCurve 10 VAuto about two months ago. It still uses the cellular modem, now using T-Mobile rather than AT&T network.

Cruiser1234 wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:39 pm

All I know is that the Resmed ASV seems to be preferred by many based on the programming.

Thanks for your post!
Wow, that is indeed ***the most important issue*** for me, so I'd like to find out about the Resmed programming, and how it differs from the Respironics' ?
Considering the price of these machines, and the importance their programming has on the user's respiratory experience, it is an IMPORTANT SUBJECT, not a trivial issue...
Hoping those who know, will pitch in..

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:27 pm

You are asking questions that are impossible to give answers to.
You need to try both and make your own decisions.

I think that users can tell if their machine also makes a rhythm error, making the IPAP very short, when they yawn...

...ah, sigh, I don't have money to try both

4betterO2 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:39 pm

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:27 pm

You are asking questions that are impossible to give answers to.
You need to try both and make your own decisions.

I think that users can tell if their machine also makes a rhythm error, making the IPAP very short, when they yawn...

...ah, sigh, I don't have money to try both

And you are complaining of issues that I never ever have experienced with either brand machine. That's why I say I can't help you....I don't have your same needs or complaints or whatever.

To be honest, I have no idea what you are talking about most of the time. If I can't understand what you are trying to say then I can't help you. Now I am not saying you aren't experiencing something....but I am saying I don't understand it and have never experienced it so how can I comment on it????

To be honest...I liked both brands just fine. Both did a good job and I slept well with both. I just preferred the ResMed because I didn't like hearing the Darth Vadar breathing noise. Pretty simple really. Had nothing to do with treatment or my breathing or the algorithm and everything to do with the fact that I don't really like the Darth Vadar noise. The ResMed was simply less noisy all the way around. I like quiet.

I don't have a crystal ball...so I don't know if you would do better with one machine over another. No one can possibly know for sure if you end up doing better with one over the other. Most people do seem to prefer the ResMed ASV over the Respironics ASV when given a chance to try both but not everyone. There are no absolutes with this stuff. Too many variables in the mix.

It's been over nearly 5 years now since I have even used the ASV (either brand)....I have slept too many times between then and now to remember minute tiny differences in the machines.
I did well with either brand though but hell, maybe...just maybe...my needs aren't the same as your needs and it doesn't matter how well I did or didn't do with anything.

There are lots of discussions in the archives about the subtle differences people experienced. One forum member compared the 2 brands as the Respironics being like a big old comfortable Cadillac and the ResMed being a high performance sports car. Unfortunately the bulk of those forum members are no longer active here and haven't been around for a while. JohnBFisher was one of them if you want to go poking through his posts. He hasn't been around in ages though. I fear something happened to him. Maybe you could do more reading and less question asking.

I can't help you because I am not you and you are asking questions that are impossible for me to answer.

And there are ways to try both machines....you just have to find a DME that will let you trial both brands. Not easy but not impossible either. It's been done before.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:24 pm

There are lots of discussions in the archives about the subtle differences people experienced. One forum member compared the 2 brands as the Respironics being like a big old comfortable Cadillac and the ResMed being a high performance sports car. Unfortunately the bulk of those forum members are no longer active here and haven't been around for a while. JohnBFisher was one of them if you want to go poking through his posts. He hasn't been around in ages though. I fear something happened to him. Maybe you could do more reading and less question asking.

Very interesting reply as always
You made me nostalgic of the years past, I remember there was a dedicated ASV thread with very detailed posts...
Also I had written a post about using oximetry with SleepyHead, that was a long time ago! I forgot everything since
I believe there were RT's which were forum members back then, are there any now?

I didn't know you could search for usernames, so yes I'll be reading!
Thanks!