Page 5 of 55
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:49 pm
by zonker
from the article-
"Another less favorable alternative to an anesthesia machine is a bilevel positive airway pressure, or BiPAP, machine, which exerts two levels of pressure through a mask to help a patient inhale and exhale. But it lacks alarms and other features a ventilator has, Branson said, making it only slightly better than a continuous positive airway pressure, or CPAP, machine, which is typically used for sleep apnea. CPAP machines have one level of pressure that forces air into a patient’s lungs, but doesn’t help the person exhale."
also, i had watched a report on rachel maddow last week where, if i remember correctly, they were already doing the ventilator split thing. this doesn't sound at all right to me. those ventilators are calibrated, to a certain extent, to individual patients. or at least, that's my understanding.
so i don't see how that would even work for two people.
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:49 pm
by palerider
PEEP and EPAP are roughly the same.
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:55 pm
by palerider
jstjohn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:38 pm
But at the end of the day it's about moving air and oxygen through a pipe at a certain volume, pressure, and timing.
And it's the "pressure and timing" which is where CPAPs fall fatally short.
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:57 pm
by palerider
zonker wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:49 pm
also, i had watched a report on rachel maddow last week where, if i remember correctly, they were already doing the ventilator split thing. this doesn't sound at all right to me. those ventilators are calibrated, to a certain extent, to individual patients. or at least, that's my understanding.
so i don't see how that would even work for two people.
Here's how:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uClq978oohY
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:48 pm
by zonker
palerider wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:57 pm
zonker wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:49 pm
also, i had watched a report on rachel maddow last week where, if i remember correctly, they were already doing the ventilator split thing. this doesn't sound at all right to me. those ventilators are calibrated, to a certain extent, to individual patients. or at least, that's my understanding.
so i don't see how that would even work for two people.
Here's how:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uClq978oohY
so, the "trick" is to have patients with pretty much the same breathing problem.
thanks. that was very informative!
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:52 pm
by babydinosnoreless
palerider wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:49 pm
PEEP and EPAP are roughly the same.
Thank you!
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:25 pm
by jstjohn
jnk... wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:54 pm
jstjohn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:38 pm
at the end of the day it's about moving air and oxygen through a pipe at a certain volume, pressure, and timing.
Which is like saying "at the end of the day, surgery is just about sticking knives into people at a certain depth, frequency, and location."
Possibly the poorest analogy I've encountered.
jnk... wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:54 pm
In fact, anyone have any ideas how I can modify my bedroom ceiling fan into a CPAP machine, in case of emergencies? I mean, at the end of the day, they're both about about moving air around in my bedroom, right?
I take that back.
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:33 pm
by palerider
jstjohn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:25 pm
jnk... wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:54 pm
jstjohn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:38 pm
at the end of the day it's about moving air and oxygen through a pipe at a certain volume, pressure, and timing.
Which is like saying "at the end of the day, surgery is just about sticking knives into people at a certain depth, frequency, and location."
Possibly the poorest analogy I've encountered.
But apropos.
jstjohn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:25 pm
Haven't we all seen the doctors explaining how, in the event that a ventilator is unavailable, a person periodically squeezing a rubber bag can be a substitute for a ventilator?
Also, no, no we haven't. Hospitals are facing a critical shortage of Respiratory techs just to monitor the ventilators they DO have, going from room to room checking on patients.
The very idea of having a person "periodically squeezing a rubber bag" every six seconds, 24 hours a day, is
ludicrous.
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:38 pm
by ChicagoGranny
What did you wish to point out in that article?
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:58 pm
by jstjohn
palerider wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:33 pm
jstjohn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:25 pm
jnk... wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:54 pm
jstjohn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:38 pm
at the end of the day it's about moving air and oxygen through a pipe at a certain volume, pressure, and timing.
The very idea of having a person "periodically squeezing a rubber bag" every six seconds, 24 hours a day, is
ludicrous.
I have seen at least two separate demonstrations how this would be done, admittedly as a last resort. They proposed using National Guard troops or volunteers.
I agree 100% that it seems impractical.
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:25 am
by babydinosnoreless
palerider wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:33 pm
jstjohn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:25 pm
jnk... wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:54 pm
jstjohn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:38 pm
at the end of the day it's about moving air and oxygen through a pipe at a certain volume, pressure, and timing.
Which is like saying "at the end of the day, surgery is just about sticking knives into people at a certain depth, frequency, and location."
Possibly the poorest analogy I've encountered.
But apropos.
jstjohn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:25 pm
Haven't we all seen the doctors explaining how, in the event that a ventilator is unavailable, a person periodically squeezing a rubber bag can be a substitute for a ventilator?
Also, no, no we haven't. Hospitals are facing a critical shortage of Respiratory techs just to monitor the ventilators they DO have, going from room to room checking on patients.
The very idea of having a person "periodically squeezing a rubber bag" every six seconds, 24 hours a day, is
ludicrous.
Local news channels are speculating wildly about things like this. How are the average citizens to know what is real and what is bs? People are scared and that includes reporters. So if we come ask you silly questions its likely that our local news or hell even our local leaders are part of the problem. Thank you for taking the time to post links and explain stuff to us. I think most of us want to help we just don't know how, which is why there are so many threads on using pap machines as ventilators. We all feel helpless. We are locked in our homes facing an enemy we can't see and don't have the tools to fight.
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:05 am
by ChicagoGranny
jstjohn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:25 pm
I can't accept the argument that CPAP/BIPAP machines cannot be used, in some cases, to ventilate patients. ...
jstjohn wrote: ↑Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:58 pm
I agree 100% that it seems impractical.
Well, that settles that. (I hope.)
On to the next kerfuffle.
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:10 am
by raisedfist
Considering people are seemingly having a hard time oxygenating even on a vent, some dude manually bagging you better just be a temp bridge while in transport to an actual vent. Otherwise you might as well start confessing your sins lol.
Cytokine Storm - Treatment with Tocilizumab?
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:39 am
by ChicagoGranny
Re: COVID 19, CPAP, Ventilator MEGA THREAD...everything go here please
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:52 am
by jnk...
Thanks, Granny.