Rainout - Resmed S9 with SoClean

randomguy · Post by **randomguy** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:55 pm

Hey everyone:

My first post here. I've been using a ResMed S9 for several years now and generally haven't had any problems. After listening to me complain about cleaning it all the time, my wife and my Doctor both convinced me to get a SoClean machine. In general, I like it. I had it for about a month and then I started having pretty regular rainout issues. Sometimes there's so much water in the hose that I feel bad about trying to run it back into the water box and I actually get up, pull the hose, and dump it out in the bath tub.

Generally, our bedroom is in the mid-60's at night and the humidity has been around 50%. My wife runs a small humidifier on her side of the bed.

Anyway, never having dealt with this before, I contacted both my Doctor, ResMed, and even SoClean and got suggestions from all. Here's what I've tried, and not necessarily in order:

* Got a new adapter lid from SoClean. It seals differently on the water box so I wondered if that didn't have something to do with it. Changing it seemed to have no effect. I also switched back to the factory ResMed lid for a couple nights and still had condensation issues.
* Turned humidification down to 0.5.
* Turned heated hose temp up to max (86F I think).
* Bought a cloth sleeve thing that wraps around the heated tubing. Helps with noise when the hose rubs on stuff like the bed frame, so I like it in that respect, but didn't seem to have an affect on condensation.

So I'm kind of at a loss. My Doctor told me that I'm past the expected life on the machine and that my insurance will cover most of the cost for a new one, but I don't see much sense in replacing it if it's working fine and isn't the source of any of these issues.

Anyone have any advice?

Thank you!

Okie bipap · Post by **Okie bipap** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:37 pm

The so clean will not affect the rain out. However, the ambient humidity of the room and the temperature of the air going through hose will. You may need to either select a lower humidity setting or raise the temperature of the air going through the hose by raising the temperature of the hose if using a heated hose. If using a regular hose, try a heated hose. Prior to getting a new machine, get rid of the so clean machine. ResMed has announced they will not repair any machine that has been damaged by the ozone from the so clean machine. The so clean does not clean anything. At best, it may kill a few germs which are yours, any way. As soon as you put the mask on, you immediately introduce more of your germs onto the mask.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:38 pm

Welcome!

randomguy wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:55 pm
my wife and my Doctor both convinced me to get a SoClean machine.

You had some good help in being scammed out of about $300.

Risks:
The residual smell of ozone may be unpleasant and risky. Ozone exposure is potentially dangerous among those with respiratory conditions. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration describes it as a “toxic gas with no known useful medical application.” The Environmental Protection Agency says that relatively low amounts of ozone can cause shortness of breath and worsen chronic respiratory disease.

In fact, ironically, exposure to it may compromise the body’s ability to fight respiratory infections.

...

Ultimately, the available CPAP cleaners and sanitizers seem unlikely to provide additional cleaning capacity beyond standard methods of cleaning with soap and water. There is no evidence that these devices reduce the risk of infection.

These companies also have no financial interest in investigating this possibility. The devices sell well without any such study. This may reveal much about the motivation behind the recent push in direct-to-consumer marketing of the product, beyond the science supporting its use.

A Word From Verywell
Further research may be helpful to determine if these devices have any role in routine CPAP therapy. The risk of infection is so small, and the evidence for benefit so weak, that these devices are not currently recommended. Save your money and buy a lifetime supply of liquid dish soap instead!

https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-you-n ... in-4171650

From a microbiologist with 25 years experience with sterilization and disinfection of equipment and facilities used in the production of sterile pharmaceuticals:

I will give you some facts, and I base the facts on the fact that I am the one who works in the industry of low temperature sterilzation

1. So Clean claims they use the same technology as is used in hospitals. LIE - the hospital ozone sterilizers cost upwards of 100,000.00 and require an O2 farm (a room with 15 to 20 tall O2 cylinders) to provide pure oxygen to extract the ozone. Besides the fact that SoClean lied about this, why on earth do you think a 300.00 device can even come close to what a 100,000.00 device can do. If SoClean was validated to sterilize or even high level disinfect, hospitals would have hundreds of them rather than the 100K devices. The SoClean just does not have the power to do what you think it does.

2. It does not clean. Period. You think it does, place a small dab of peanut butter in your hose and see if it is still there when the cycle is complete. You think this is not a good test, it is the basis of the VA soil test, the test that all medical cleaners must pass or they cannot claim to clean.

3. Amazon reviews - nothing but feel good stories. I have not read one Amazon review that can factually claim that the SoClean kills germs. If you know of one, please post the link because I would like to read it. What is the basis of a 5 star review when all they can go on is they like it? Meaningless.

4. I did own a SoClean on the 30 day trial, when I realized what it was vs. the claims they make I returned it under the 30 day return policy. Why not just get one of the room ozone fans and hang your mask in front of it, they would both do the same thing which is nothing.

I am just repeating the same thing I have typed here about a hundred times; for now on I will just say it is awesome, give the scammers your money, you will love it.

viewtopic/t157842/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1 ... 9#p1210375

Edit: SoClean is being sued for False Advertising and other violations of law - https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/14 ... clean-inc/

Edit: ResMed changed their warranty terms to include a statement that use of an ozone-cleaning machine may void their CPAP machine warranty.

January 8, 2020
To Our Valued Patient,
ResMed announced an update to its limited warranty that may affect whether you choose to use an ozone
device with your ResMed machine and mask. Please review the detail of this update below.*

ResMed user guides advise patients to periodically clean ResMed machines, components and masks with
mild detergent and warm water only. Some patients choose to use other means to clean and/or disinfect
their machines. With the increased use of ozone devices, ResMed has observed that prolonged and
repeated use of an ozone device may eventually cause internal damage to a ResMed machine, leading to
an increase in motor noise.
Warranty update: Effective for sales of ResMed machines on or after February 1, 2020, ResMed’s limited
warranty will exclude damage to ResMed machines caused by use of ozone devices. The limited warranty
on ResMed masks, with the exception of ResMed AirTouch™ products, will not be affected.
ResMed is not taking a position on whether you should use an ozone device. That decision is up to you, as
the patient, to balance the convenience of using an ozone device versus the likelihood of potential damage
to your ResMed machine. ResMed is reinforcing the cleaning instructions in its machine user guide:
periodic cleaning with mild detergent and warm water is all that is required with a ResMed machine,
component or mask. This letter requires no action on your part.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact the manufacturer of the ozone device you are
currently using or, for medical advice, your physician.
Sincerely,
Your home care provider

https://www.resmed.com/us/dam/documents ... letter.pdf

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:40 pm

randomguy wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:55 pm
I had it for about a month and then I started having pretty regular rainout issues. Sometimes there's so much water in the hose that I feel bad about trying to run it back into the water box and I actually get up, pull the hose, and dump it out in the bath tub.

Turn the humidifier setting down and place the machine so any condensation in the hose runs down away from the mask and toward the humidifier tank.

Julie · Post by **Julie** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:42 pm

If you're still within refundable time for the SC take it, use it, get your money back. They're in court being sued and people now know what a scam they've perpetrated. Ozone is actually dangerous for you, your machine never needed sterilization, internal cleaning, etc. to begin with (no more than anything else in your environment does when awake or asleep), do a forum search on the machine and see the reams and reams of stuff on it and how people feel about it here (and lots of other places) and forgive Bill Shatner for getting caught in the middle. The SC isn't helping you to feel better, the machine otherwise does that (it and/or the placebo effect), and may damage components and/or you with the ozone. Sorry, just keep your filter changes up to date. Your doctor may simply not be informed... but then so many of them don't understand how the machines work, part of the reason we're here. Google "is ozone dangerous to humans" and see results there too.

Becca8104 · Post by **Becca8104** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:03 pm

If your CPAP machine is over 5 years, It COULD be the machine. I recommend replacing it. The humidifier may not be functioning properly. My humidity level is set to 4 and I have no rain out. The problem could also be that because of your wife''s use of a room humidifier, even if it is on HER side of the bed, it will produce humidity in the entire bedroom, so you may already have enough humidity in the room and you don't need to use your water tank on the machine.
I agree that the SoClean is not the cause. I am sorry you spent the money on it. I confess I have a SoClean machine because I was talked into it as well and regret the purchase. That was before I found this forum and got educated.

Lifeisabeach · Post by **Lifeisabeach** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:22 pm

randomguy wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:55 pm
So I'm kind of at a loss. My Doctor told me that I'm past the expected life on the machine and that my insurance will cover most of the cost for a new one, but I don't see much sense in replacing it if it's working fine and isn't the source of any of these issues.

It may be working fine... until one day it won't be, and that'll be the day you'll wish you had replaced it. You should get a new one while the insurance company is willing to pay for it and keep the old one available as a backup for travel or unforeseen issues/accidents with the new one.

Becca8104 · Post by **Becca8104** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:53 pm

Insurance will usually pay 80% for a new machine that is 3-5 years old. Tricare used to cover a new machine every 5 years, but they changed it to every 3 years. You would need to ask your insurance company what the time span is for new machine coverage, however it sounds like you already have your answer. Get a new machine.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:11 pm

So glad I never drank the Noclean Kool-aid.
There are snakes around every corner.
Hoping my froggy sense continues to not fail me.

Jas_williams · Post by **Jas_williams** » Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:48 am

Could it be your heated hose gone wron broken, can you try a new one or make sure the connections are clean and connected

NoMoreApnea · Post by **NoMoreApnea** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:30 am

One thing that can help reduce rainout is a hose cover. You can get a nice fleece one fairly cheap. It holds the heat from the CPAP and from the heated hose which prevents condensation. I've never had rainout since using one.

ChicagoGranny · Post by **ChicagoGranny** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:53 am

NoMoreApnea wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:30 am
One thing that can help reduce rainout is a hose cover.

randomguy wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:55 pm
Bought a cloth sleeve thing that wraps around the heated tubing. Helps with noise when the hose rubs on stuff like the bed frame, so I like it in that respect, but didn't seem to have an affect on condensation.

NoMoreApnea · Post by **NoMoreApnea** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:29 am

You might notice I did not claim it fixes it. Just that it can help. I posted that for forum benefit as well as for you.

What this might indicate (if already using a hose cover) is the severity of your rainout is great enough so the hose makes little difference. That's a clue, detective.

There's also some subtext in the other posts regarding the wisdom of falling for So Clean, which might more accurately be named 'So What?'

jimbud · Post by **jimbud** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:36 am

NoMoreApnea wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:29 am
'So What?'

So far everything you have posted is a "So What".

JPB

palerider · Post by **palerider** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:19 pm

NoMoreApnea wrote: ↑
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:29 am
You might notice I did not claim it fixes it. Just that it can help. I posted that for forum benefit as well as for you.

You might notice, though apparently not, even though it's been pointed out to you *directly* that the OP had already tried a hose cover, guess that disqualifies you for the label 'detective'.

Rainout - Resmed S9 with SoClean

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