OT - vaping - cbd's

Article on Medscape:

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/91 ... 1719&faf=1

My eldest grandson vapes--he never smoked.
Apparently there is a lot of that going on.
Peer pressure.

I've got to wonder if it's a sudden epidemic, or more and more hospitals are saying "oh, that's what's happening" and reporting it more...

Just like it's not that there are suddenly way more OSA patients, it's just being recognized more.

Science is cumulative.
Discovery is tragically sluggish.
Acceptance is even more so.

The news isn't helping things with their hysterical response. So many different stories, they could at least try to be a little objective.

Sometimes adrenaline fuels research . . .
If enough people "freak out", maybe we will get some answers.

babydinosnoreless wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:34 pm

The news isn't helping things with their hysterical response. So many different stories, they could at least try to be a little objective.

It sounds like some of them have put CBD *oil* in the vaping thing. It could be that they are inhaling oil and that is causing the damage. They probably don't realize that just because it is a liquid, doesn't mean it is safe to use for vaping.

zoocrewphoto wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:52 am

babydinosnoreless wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:34 pm

The news isn't helping things with their hysterical response. So many different stories, they could at least try to be a little objective.

It sounds like some of them have put CBD *oil* in the vaping thing. It could be that they are inhaling oil and that is causing the damage. They probably don't realize that just because it is a liquid, doesn't mean it is safe to use for vaping.

There was one report I heard about lipid pneumonia, mentioning that cbd oil is .... oil.. whereas the normal vaping fluid is water based.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:56 pm

zoocrewphoto wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:52 am

babydinosnoreless wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:34 pm

The news isn't helping things with their hysterical response. So many different stories, they could at least try to be a little objective.

It sounds like some of them have put CBD *oil* in the vaping thing. It could be that they are inhaling oil and that is causing the damage. They probably don't realize that just because it is a liquid, doesn't mean it is safe to use for vaping.

There was one report I heard about lipid pneumonia, mentioning that cbd oil is .... oil.. whereas the normal vaping fluid is water based.

It seems like the terminology for CBD is not standard. Some call it vape oil other call it vape juice. I've seen water soluble vape oil tinctures. Pretty sure if its oil its not water soluble but I could be mistaken. One place calls their water soluble tincture cbd fluid. Until someone decides to regulate it, its going to continue to be a mess and people will have to look for independently lab tested products and hope for the best. I doubt that the cbd vape is causing these kids to get lipid pneumonia. For one thing its expensive and you can't get high with cbd. Its made and advertised for medical patients.

Vaping e-juice commonly referred to as juice consists of:

• PG - Propylene Glycol, this provides what vapers refer to as the "throat hit". This sensation is difficult to describe, kind of a raw "burning" sensation in the back of the throat that is important to more closely resemble the smoking experience. PG is water soluble.
• VG - Vegetable Glycerin, this provides the thick vapour which also contributes to the smoking sensation. Blowing "thick clouds" is also important to some of the vaping sub-culture. VG is water soluble.
• Nicotine - one of the addictive components of cigarettes to address the withdrawal symptoms of quitting. Nicotine is typically measured in 18, 12, 6, 3 and 0 mg/ml and you get your preferences according to how you vape. (dripping, sub-ohming, or conventional mods or pens) I started on 12, switched to 6 when I started sub-ohming, than worked down to 3 and eventually zero. I soon just stopped because I was no longer addicted.
• Flavours - ingredients may or may not be listed.

When one vapes the juice is wicked up cotton across a heating coil where it is vaporized, there might be some aerosolization. This is why it is essential that juice be water-soluble. In the lungs there will likely be some liquid condensed, that is not exhaled. Think of it as rain-out . Because it's water-soluble it is absorbed and or easily cleaned from the lungs and bronchial passages. It will not accumulate.

Canabis Oil is too thick to wick and vape, it is therefore cut to thin it out. The problem being many are using dangerous non-water-soluble oil which collects and coats the lungs preventing them from working properly and evacuating the oil.

Vitamin E Acetate has been found in an overwhelming amount of the tested vaping equipment, and is likely the solvent that has been used to cut the canabiss oil, or create the nicotine juice (if those reporting nicotine only are to be believed).

From the article pale rider posted:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/09 ... in-creams/

• The New York State Department of Health announced Thursday that their lab tests found vitamin E acetate at “very high levels” in nearly all of the cannabis-containing vape liquids linked to illnesses in the state.
• At least one vitamin E acetate containing vape product has been linked to each patient who submitted a product for testing, the department said in a statement.
• Officials at the FDA also found vitamin E acetate in suspect cannabis-containing vape liquids they tested, according to a report by the Washington Post Thursday.

The importance of using only water-soluble liquids in Juice amounst reputable e-juice manufactures, DYIers and informed users has been understood and well-known for years. This is exactly why PG/VG has been exclusively used for years.

Over two weeks ago, although the Vitamin E Acetate connection had not been published, I said:

Dog Slobber wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:03 am

I expect that dabbing, the unsanitary street cartridges and juice containing THC and other unknown elements to eventually be the definitive cause, but vaping will continue to reported as the cause.

It's starting to look like I was exactly correct.

And yes, I fully expect that should Vitamin E Acetate and other non-water-soluble cutting solvent in the outliers be determined to be the definitive cause, it won't matter. Vaping will be listed as the cause in headlines and general media, for years to come.

I have seen this play out a few times now.

I remember hearing about Vitamin E in the story I saw about the oil. It does sound like the real problem is a subset of vaping. In other words, people vaping the wrong liquid, mistaking it for something that is okay to use.