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Gryphon wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:56 pm

. . . we dont feel as though he's with us any more. . . . it's so hard thinking of the struggle. . . .

If the family are all on the same page with that, you may want to use those exact words with the pros there. It may help them with how to proceed.

Gryphon wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:39 pm

I dont want this to come off sounding the wrong way but if he had sevier apnea and is on morphine would that help him pass away faster?

I certainly can't speak for anybody else, but I completely understand where you're coming from.

If your father were your beloved pet, you'd take him to the vet and do the right thing.

Why do we treat our pets with more kindness and love ... and humanity... than we do people?

You've got my most sincere condolences, and wishes for a swift end to his suffering.

Gryphon, I’m sorry.
My mother suffered for 4 long months and my sister passed in a hospice setting in 4 days. Neither had apnea but both were heavily sedated with morphine.
You are in my thoughts.

palerider wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:06 pm

completely understand where you're coming from.

Me too.

I believe in showing the utmost respect to/for all human life, to the best of my ability. Part of that is making sure someone is kept absolutely comfortable during their imminent departure, even if doing so may inadvertently, but reasonably, hasten it. At least, that is what I would want.

jnk... wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:22 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:06 pm

completely understand where you're coming from.

Me too.

I believe in showing the utmost respect to/for all human life, to the best of my ability. Part of that is making sure someone is kept absolutely comfortable during their imminent departure, even if doing so may inadvertently, but reasonably, hasten it. At least, that is what I would want.

Me three.

Slapping the damn mask on would be the LAST thing I would ever want if I was ever in that situation. Geez...I still got smoke coming out of my ears.

Play his favorite music for him.
It can help distract him from the pain.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:25 pm

jnk... wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:22 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:06 pm

completely understand where you're coming from.

Me too.

I believe in showing the utmost respect to/for all human life, to the best of my ability. Part of that is making sure someone is kept absolutely comfortable during their imminent departure, even if doing so may inadvertently, but reasonably, hasten it. At least, that is what I would want.

Me three.

Slapping the damn mask on would be the LAST thing I would ever want if I was ever in that situation. Geez...I still got smoke coming out of my ears.

Oh, yeah, please, someone pull the plug, turn out the lights, give me that massive dose of morphine, etc. Treat me with the same compassion you'd show a wounded dog on the street... take me to the vet.

(No, lucyhere, not QUITE yet, don't get your hopes up.)

palerider wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:06 pm

I certainly can't speak for anybody else, but I completely understand where you're coming from.

If your father were your beloved pet, you'd take him to the vet and do the right thing.

Why do we treat our pets with more kindness and love ... and humanity... than we do people?

You've got my most sincere condolences, and wishes for a swift end to his suffering.

What a beautifully written post, palerider. Could it possibly be that you are a decent human being after all?

Lucyhere wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:36 pm

palerider wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:06 pm

I certainly can't speak for anybody else, but I completely understand where you're coming from.

If your father were your beloved pet, you'd take him to the vet and do the right thing.

Why do we treat our pets with more kindness and love ... and humanity... than we do people?

You've got my most sincere condolences, and wishes for a swift end to his suffering.

What a beautifully written post, palerider. Could it possibly be that you are a decent human being after all?

Not as far as you're concerned.

But let's not further detract from the subject at hand, hoping that Gryphon's father gets the ultimate relief as soon as possible.

Everyone is tucked in to bed for now... we had a long talk and even if he goes when were not there we'll be happy he isnt going through this anymore. Were going to go back tomorrow and stay with him. Hopping he'll pass along as we're sleeping and we can say goodbye again in our dreams.

Thank you all for your thoughts and kindness.


Thank you Palrider too, your right. We're all thinking the same thing...

Wish we could just help him along but I dont think they do it that way. With my Grandfather he was in a whole lot of pain so they helped him a lot and he chose what he wanted on his own. My Dads body is working fine but his mind isnt there any more so we can only point to some of his reflex movements when they appear "stressed" and say he's in discomfort can we give him something?


We're going to call it a night for now, I'll update this post later with how things are going.

Take care,

Gryphon

If it's any consolation....when the brain is dead people don't feel pain like we feel pain. They don't actually feel anything one way or the other. I went through this with my best friend after she had a bad accident and head injury. The brain is dead...not functioning like we usually think it is functioning in terms of sensory stuff.
It's much more distressing for the family members though who are still used to the normal sensory responses that they expect...it's hard to wrap your head around the fact that the person you love really doesn't sense anything and what you are seeing is more reflex than anything else.
We "feel" it but the brain dead person doesn't really feel it like we think they feel it.

Do like you have been doing though...you see a response that might be considered related to discomfort and ask for relief (more morphine). It won't hurt and it might help (one way or the other)...and it will help you somewhat to feel like you are doing what little you can (one way or the other). It's about all we can do.

FWIW...I sat by my father's bed for nearly a week (cancer)....day in and day out and I knew when the end was getting closer because I was monitoring his blood pressure and limb temperature as his body started to shut down.
So I pretty much knew when the last day was going to be...and I left his bedside to go pee...and he gave up when I was out of the room.
Go figure. I was 15 feet away.
His brain wasn't dead though...just everything else in his body was shutting down.

I wish more states would adopt legislation so that family members could actually do what really needs to be done in this situation.
Right now doctors are caught between a rock and a hard place...and the hospital in same situation.
Ease everyone's suffering.

I am wondering if he is in hospice; because a ventilator sounds a bit aggressive for a hopeless case.
Hospice, if requested, might allow them to remove the vent and let him pass peacefully.

chunkyfrog wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:22 pm

I am wondering if he is in hospice; because a ventilator sounds a bit aggressive for a hopeless case.
Hospice, if requested, might allow them to remove the vent and let him pass peacefully.

I think he is in the hospital...was probably put on the ventilator while they figured out the status of the damage done by the stroke to the brain on the off chance the damage was minimal and could maybe be overcome.
The issue now is they plan to take him off the ventilator since the brain is gone and no sense in oxygenating it anymore but until it was determined the status...wanted to keep it oxygenated...just in case.
Unfortunately people don't always pass quickly even when taken off a ventilator because the body's own reflex of breathing keeps on working for a while despite the ventilator.
His body may not need the ventilator to keep on breathing and stopping the vent won't necessarily cause him to just stop breathing straight away.
Sometimes hours...sometimes days (even weeks) before the body gives up when the body is still strong. Really rough on the family to watch.

Our prayers go out for you and your father. Hopefully, his and your suffering will not be too long. We buried my wife's sister today. She had a short battle with cancer and a stroke within the past week. We're pretty sure she knew, or at least suspected she had cancer for some time, but she did not tell anyone, even her own son.

palerider wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:06 pm

Gryphon wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:39 pm

I dont want this to come off sounding the wrong way but if he had sevier apnea and is on morphine would that help him pass away faster?

I certainly can't speak for anybody else, but I completely understand where you're coming from.

If your father were your beloved pet, you'd take him to the vet and do the right thing.

Why do we treat our pets with more kindness and love ... and humanity... than we do people?

You've got my most sincere condolences, and wishes for a swift end to his suffering.

I was thinking this as well. Especially as I recently did this with an older cat who had very aggressive cancer in his mouth. He was still alert and in better condition that Gryphon's father. But he was obviously in pain despite the medicines, and it would only get worse. Should I really wait for him to have a much worse day? That didn't seem right. It was time to let him go.

While I understand the fear that people might be encouraged to commit suicide, I do believe that people should have the right to go with dignity if there is no quality of life and and no expectation of improvement. In a case where somebody is considered brain dead, why is it okay to remove equipment (thus possibly ending life), but not okay to give some medication that would end life?

To Gryphon, I am very sorry that you have to experience this. It is hard enough to lose somebody you really care about. So much harder to watch them linger in a condition that you cannot improve. I don't know what the doctors are allowed to advise, but I would ask them what they recommend. I hope that all of your family will have some relief soon.