Almost At My Wits' End

I've been using an APAP/CPAP machine for five months now. I switched from APAP to CPAP a few months ago because I was constantly being woken all night from the changing pressures and the little puffs of air the machine would send if it thought I was having a central event....

My AHI was 28 before therapy, and regularly is under 1 every night now. Here's the issue, though-- I am becoming more and more and more tired every single day that I use the machine. I never wake feeling rested when I use CPAP. When I can't stand it anymore, I sleep a night without it, and actually feel rested when I wake up. With a headache, but rested.

I am a super light sleeper, and I swear I don't get any deep sleep when I'm on CPAP. There is no difference in how I feel the next day whether I have mask leaks or not (full face mask). I knew it would probably take some getting used to sleeping with a mask, since I am a light sleeper, but FIVE months???

I'm about ready to throw in the towel. I can understand feeling the same or better, but significantly worse? Sigh.

greenjelloland wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:27 pm

I've been using an APAP/CPAP machine for five months now. I switched from APAP to CPAP a few months ago because I was constantly being woken all night from the changing pressures and the little puffs of air the machine would send if it thought I was having a central event....

More likely, you were being waked up by breathing events, and blamed it on the pressure changes... same with the 'little puffs of air' that the machine used to see whether you were having a central or obstructive event.

You probably just needed more minimum pressure.

How where you diagnosed with apnea? If you feel well, are rested, and any snoring is not disruptive to you or others, why use CPAP? Please provide more information. Thank you. I hope that you reach a quick resolution.

Sounds to me like you might benefit from something besides a full face mask.

Nasal pillows style are a LOT easier to sleep with than full face for me!

That is what it is all about anyway, good sleep!

bombayone wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:21 am

If you feel well, are rested, and any snoring is not disruptive to you or others, why use CPAP?

------------------>

greenjelloland wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:27 pm

I sleep a night without it ... when I wake up. With a headache

That's an indication he is having long apneas when sleeping without CPAP.

palerider wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:37 pm

More likely, you were being waked up by breathing events, and blamed it on the pressure changes... same with the 'little puffs of air' that the machine used to see whether you were having a central or obstructive event.

Possibly.

However, I have been doing diaphragmic breathing since my teens, and my respiratory rate is much slower/deeper than most people. Even during my sleep study, the tech said I was triggering 'respiratory events', even though I was awake. So the machine wants me to breathe sooner than I would normally, which meant I 'fought' the machine All. Night. Long. The doc switched me off APAP to CPAP because of that.

bombayone wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:21 am

How where you diagnosed with apnea? If you feel well, are rested, and any snoring is not disruptive to you or others, why use CPAP? Please provide more information. Thank you. I hope that you reach a quick resolution.

Sleep study. I was only able to sleep 3.5 hours during the study (that whole light sleeper curse....between all the wires and the techs outside the door and the other people in the other rooms there for a study....ugh), and had 95% of my events during the one REM cycle I had. I went to the study because I wake up alllllll night long. I also have a connective tissue disorder that makes my airway completely obstruct at night.

realshelby wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:51 am

Sounds to me like you might benefit from something besides a full face mask.

I chose a full mask because I do tend to mouth breathe at night, can't use a chin strap (TMJ) or tape my mouth shut (adhesive allergies).

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:35 am

That's an indication he is having long apneas when sleeping without CPAP.

Yes-- the cessation of the daily headache is the only good thing to come out of using CPAP.

I suppose I should clarify a bit, too, that when I say I feel rested after sleeping without CPAP, it really means something like 'more rested than with CPAP'. I still feel fatigued all day, but not like when I use CPAP.

greenjelloland wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:30 am

the machine wants me to breathe sooner than I would normally, which meant I 'fought' the machine All. Night. Long.

The machine you have in your profile doesn't "lead". It only "follows" your breathing.

The feeling that the machine wants you to breathe sooner is a symptom of some human stress about the process. Once you fall asleep, the autonomic breathing process takes over. You breathe gently with little effort.

While awake, try to distract your mind from the breathing process. Think of some pleasant activity. (Lying on a warm beach listening to the surf would help me when I was first getting accustomed to CPAP.)

ChicagoGranny wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:48 am

The feeling that the machine wants you to breathe sooner is a symptom of some human stress about the process. Once you fall asleep, the autonomic breathing process takes over. You breathe gently with little effort.

Maybe I'm not explaining this properly. On APAP, it would think I'm not breathing soon enough, so it would send a puff of air to determine if it was a central vs obstructive event. Most of the time, this would happen to me while I was in a very light stage of sleep, and the puff of air would startle me awake.

Then, because it determined it was some sort of event, it would ramp up the pressure. Then I was trying to fall back asleep with a higher pressure. Rinse and repeat.

Doc switched me to CPAP after 2 months because I was going crazy due to lack of sleep. I was able to actually sleep when it was a constant flow of air.

But now, even if I use CPAP all night long (7-9 hours), I don't feel rested upon waking. My AHI is 95% under 1 now, and the other 5% is under 1.5. So obviously it is working, if you go by the numbers. But if you go by how I feel, I feel more exhausted, more likely to nod off during the day, more likely to get sleepy while driving, etc. The only improvement is the constant awful headache I used to have is gone.

welcome to the forum!

if you could, please read this link-

viewtopic/t172378/Sticky--Newbies-PLEAS ... STING.html

in particular, read about the sleepyhead software. if you could download that and post some graphs here, then the experts can give you some specific advice. without the information about you, the best they can do is guess.

good luck!

zonker wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:03 am

if you could download that and post some graphs here, then the experts can give you some specific advice. without the information about you, the best they can do is guess.

I've been using SleepyHead since the beginning, which is why I'm very familiar with my AHI and leaks and such.

What graphs would you like to see?

greenjelloland wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:07 am

zonker wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:03 am

if you could download that and post some graphs here, then the experts can give you some specific advice. without the information about you, the best they can do is guess.

I've been using SleepyHead since the beginning, which is why I'm very familiar with my AHI and leaks and such.

What graphs would you like to see?

start here-

wiki/index.php/Sleepyhead:Organize

this will give them something to look at, though they may want some tweaking. try to post about 3 nights worth, if you can.

**btw, i'm not one of the experts here. just someone who likes to stick his beak in!!**

AHI is not a perfect measurement. For instance it measures events of ten seconds or more. Thus, if you have multiple events lasting 9¾ seconds, they're not included in you AHI. Neither are obstructions of under 70% included in that number.

That having been said, it's hard for me to imagine that such a dramatic reduction in your AHI is not an improvement.

Also, I assume that when you went to "plain CPAP" that you changed a setting rather than that you changed your machine. If that's the case, you have the flexibility to resume auto mode.

BTW, are you using exhalation relief? That means that the machine slightly reduces the pressure when you exhale. For your machine, the proprietary name for this feature is "Expiratory Pressure Relief" a.k.a. "EPR." Perhaps that's what's bothering you (you can disable that).

D.H. wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:26 am

Also, I assume that when you went to "plain CPAP" that you changed a setting rather than that you changed your machine. If that's the case, you have the flexibility to resume auto mode.

BTW, are you using exhalation relief? That means that the machine slightly reduces the pressure when you exhale. For your machine, the proprietary name for this feature is "Expiratory Pressure Relief" a.k.a. "EPR." Perhaps that's what's bothering you (you can disable that).

Yes, I can change it back to APAP, if needed.

I am using EPR. I felt like I was suffocating without it.

Please review this thread for complete format.
You are missing some information that is useful.
viewtopic/t158560/How-to-post-images-for-review.html


How many hours of sleep are you averaging with cpap? Real sleep and not laying there trying to sleep?
Are those hours fragmented very much...wake up often?

Do you take any medications? If so, what?

What is your primary complaint that hasn't been resolved with cpap therapy? We know the headaches are improved....what persists that you wish you didn't have?