xxyzx and Morbius Spam Buttons Removed

Bless your heart Johnny It is not easy dealing with sleep deprived people.

Perhaps we should have started with a problem statement. Maybe that will help keep us all talking about the same problem.

Googling "Problem Statement" brings up this

How to Write a Problem Statement

A problem statement is a clear concise description of the issue(s) that need(s) to be addressed by a problem solving team. It is used to center and focus the team at the beginning, keep the team on track during the effort, and is used to validate that the effort delivered an outcome that solves the problem statement. It has a specific form:

Am I wrong when I say from Madalots point of view the problem is "Someone deleted one of my posts and that makes me mad".

Or are we talking about something else?

Guest wrote:Bless your heart Johnny It is not easy dealing with sleep deprived people.

Perhaps we should have started with a problem statement. Maybe that will help keep us all talking about the same problem.

Googling "Problem Statement" brings up this

How to Write a Problem Statement

A problem statement is a clear concise description of the issue(s) that need(s) to be addressed by a problem solving team. It is used to center and focus the team at the beginning, keep the team on track during the effort, and is used to validate that the effort delivered an outcome that solves the problem statement. It has a specific form:

Am I wrong when I say from Madalots point of view the problem is "Someone deleted one of my posts and that makes me mad".

Or are we talking about something else?

I believe Johnny was talking about something else ... specifically about how to handle the "problem" of some forum members being offended by other forum members (and irritating guests).

Although this problem (of offended forum members) has led to some forum members deleting thread posts as a form of rebuttal to being offended, I don't think Johnny was only talking about you being mad about someone ("supposedly" ... because I've seen no proof of that) having deleted your post.

Having said that, you too as a guest have clearly been offended and continue to "stir the pot" (as your rebuttal) and/or to keep yourself entertained (my own personal view of your thread posts). Why not just register so you can file a complaint as a forum member and have the culprit(s) (who supposedly deleted your thread post(s)) spam delete button removed and quit with your whining already?

Guest wrote:

Madalot wrote:I have no idea about JediMark.

Your post used the word "insulting" and the post I showed has a ton of speculation that is, in fact, very insulting. You can tap dance all you want but the post was very insulting.

You said I couldn't show you an example and I did. Simple as that.

Two things come to mind

Guest wrote:Isn't that like the inmates running the prison?

Guest wrote:soon as someone registers here they act like they own the place. Presumably that is because it is not their first log on ID, so they know the rules they accepted the user agreement (more than once) then they want to tell the Owner what to do and how to do it.

Just because you don't agree with something does not make it insulting nor does it make it wrong.

The people causing the problem are those who have been deleting things they don't agree with then creating more ID's to repeat the process. These are not guests but are the Registered Members who get infused with wisdom, anger, and an intolerance of differing opinions soon after registering.

That is one problem.
Then there are people like you who are not looking for help, just playing games.

TedVPAP wrote:

Guest wrote:
The people causing the problem are those who have been deleting things they don't agree with then creating more ID's to repeat the process. These are not guests but are the Registered Members who get infused with wisdom, anger, and an intolerance of differing opinions soon after registering.

That is one problem.
Then there are people like you who are not looking for help, just playing games.

Agree 100%. This type of person is playing games, pure and simple. This person--and others who post like him/her--are only doing so out of the selfish desire to stir things up to create entertainment for themselves. Sad, really sad.

Guest wrote:Just because you don't agree with something does not make it insulting nor does it make it wrong.

Accusations, based on beliefs and no supporting facts, about what you THINK people are doing IS insulting. When it comes to a difference of opinion, I am usually pretty respectful of other people's opinions. I believe that more people would agree with me that unfounded accusations towards a person ARE insulting to that person.

Guest wrote:The people causing the problem are those who have been deleting things they don't agree with then creating more ID's to repeat the process. These are not guests but are the Registered Members who get infused with wisdom, anger, and an intolerance of differing opinions soon after registering.

This is ONE of the problems. Won't argue this point since I agree with it.

But the use of "Guest" is also being abused by people, whether members or not, to swing insults and abuse and not be held accountable for their behavior by use of a login ID. That's problem 2.

Problem 3 is posters (okay, maybe 1) that gives out inaccurate information (at times) then becomes hostile and abusive when corrected. It's one thing to be so arrogant as to say "I'm right, you're wrong" but this poster name calls and HAS made veiled death wishes towards anyone he has labeled with a specific name. Worse, he denies doing any of it and justifies his behavior by a childish "you started it."

You may not agree with me and that's fine. We can agree to disagree.

WearyOne wrote:

TedVPAP wrote:

Guest wrote:
The people causing the problem are those who have been deleting things they don't agree with then creating more ID's to repeat the process. These are not guests but are the Registered Members who get infused with wisdom, anger, and an intolerance of differing opinions soon after registering.

That is one problem.
Then there are people like you who are not looking for help, just playing games.

Agree 100%. This type of person is playing games, pure and simple. This person--and others who post like him/her--are only doing so out of the selfish desire to stir things up to create entertainment for themselves. Sad, really sad.

I agree also. There have been some Guest accusations that members of this forum think they own the place/can set the rules. It's not that. Registering and logging in using your member ID makes you accountable (as login IDs go) to a certain acceptable behavior. To either refuse to register and keep posting anonymously OR logging out and using "Guest" to post insulting or inflammatory posts - is cowardice.

At least when I post, everyone here knows it's ME and if I make an ass of myself, I'm accountable since it is MY login ID. And I've gotten myself slapped numerous times for things I have said. And I take responsibility for them.

When I post, you get ME, the good, the bad and the ugly. I don't hide behind an anonymous login to be a jerk.

Madalot wrote:

WearyOne wrote:

TedVPAP wrote:

Guest wrote:
The people causing the problem are those who have been deleting things they don't agree with then creating more ID's to repeat the process. These are not guests but are the Registered Members who get infused with wisdom, anger, and an intolerance of differing opinions soon after registering.

That is one problem.
Then there are people like you who are not looking for help, just playing games.

Agree 100%. This type of person is playing games, pure and simple. This person--and others who post like him/her--are only doing so out of the selfish desire to stir things up to create entertainment for themselves. Sad, really sad.

I agree also. There have been some Guest accusations that members of this forum think they own the place/can set the rules. It's not that. Registering and logging in using your member ID makes you accountable (as login IDs go) to a certain acceptable behavior. To either refuse to register and keep posting anonymously OR logging out and using "Guest" to post insulting or inflammatory posts - is cowardice.

At least when I post, everyone here knows it's ME and if I make an ass of myself, I'm accountable since it is MY login ID. And I've gotten myself slapped numerous times for things I have said. And I take responsibility for them.

When I post, you get ME, the good, the bad and the ugly. I don't hide behind an anonymous login to be a jerk.

Agreeable to most of the above quoted. As someone who seems to have recently been accused of posting as a Guest, I understand taking responsibility for my own posts -- be they informative or alternative view(s), entertaining or just stupid, inflammatory and/or offensive.

As I noted previously when I first suspected of being accused as posting as a guest, I admitted that I have posted as a guest twice in 11+ years. The first time was at the beginning when I was first learning my way around the forum and accidentally posted as a guest. The second was a while back on a thread where members were having fun testing to see what other members they were associated with when posting as a guest.

However, when someone is accused of posting as a guest, how on earth can it be proven by either the accuser or disproven by the accused? For that reason alone, I now lean stronger to disallowing guests from posting and only allowing guest to read and search the forum. If forum users want to remain anonymous, that's still possible to do even as a registered member (they just need to be careful about how much information they release about themselves either in posts, PMs, or profile). I suppose I shouldn't really care, as I know what I actually post and shouldn't have a need to prove it ... but preventing Guest posts would mean exactly that ... not having to disprove ... what's the term I'm looking for? Oh yes, "an alter ego". ( )

WearyOne wrote:

TedVPAP wrote:

Guest wrote:
The people causing the problem are those who have been deleting things they don't agree with then creating more ID's to repeat the process. These are not guests but are the Registered Members who get infused with wisdom, anger, and an intolerance of differing opinions soon after registering.

That is one problem.
Then there are people like you who are not looking for help, just playing games.

Agree 100%. This type of person is playing games, pure and simple. This person--and others who post like him/her--are only doing so out of the selfish desire to stir things up to create entertainment for themselves. Sad, really sad.

Have you ever heard of "Sea lioning"? http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/873260-sea-lioning I'm seeing a number of "Guest*" posts that clearly appear to be employing this technique.

For the record, my earlier post outlining my opinion of why lack of moderation risks this board's future is based not on offense or insult. I'd have to actually care about someone's opinion to be offended by their remarks. It's that the toxic individuals are making it increasingly difficult to actually use the board as a resource, rendering it less and less useful and thus more and more likely to be abandoned. It's not about snowflakes and safe zones. It's about not wanting to wade in a cesspool when actually useful resources exist elsewhere.

ZzzCatcher wrote:Have you ever heard of "Sea lioning"? http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/873260-sea-lioning I'm seeing a number of "Guest*" posts that clearly appear to be employing this technique.

According to your link, "sealioning" is good, right? A person accuses another of "sealioning" only if they don't have any material to back up their claims, but somehow want to appear that they know what they're talking about:



At any rate, in medicine we're a regular rookery. But we call it "evidence-based practice".

I would tend to disagree. Because it's a technique based on nitpicking. No response will actually satisfy a "sea lion" because they will continue to pick at nuance, word choice, and opinion.

I might say "I feel like there are toxic posters here who are causing the forum to become less useful. The signal to noise ratio is getting out of whack and I can find help with much less drama elsewhere."

A "sea lion" will pick and ask for examples and specifics, and "helpfully" point out that somehow, somewhere, someone else is doing something - no actual answer will satisfy. They'll just deke a little and pick at something else. To say nothing of the fact that what I said was an opinion. It's not easy to "prove" opinion or feeling. After all, exactly what number/percentage of useless posts is the magic "forum is too frustrating for me" number? You don't know. I don't know. There's no definition.

I mean, I don't really have a vested interest here - I'm new, I don't know anyone here, and I'm sure I can find somewhere else to answer my questions if I want to - and yet can see it's patently obvious that in this thread there are people pretending to be sincere, but intentionally pushing buttons and being jerks. Asking ever-so-politely for examples then niggling over the definition of "jerk" is pretty classic sea lioning. There's no winning an argument with a "sea lion", because they're not actually listening to the answer.

Your mileage may, of course, vary.

ZzzCatcher wrote:I would tend to disagree. Because it's a technique based on nitpicking. No response will actually satisfy a "sea lion" because they will continue to pick at nuance, word choice, and opinion.

I might say "I feel like there are toxic posters here who are causing the forum to become less useful. The signal to noise ratio is getting out of whack and I can find help with much less drama elsewhere."

A "sea lion" will pick and ask for examples and specifics, and "helpfully" point out that somehow, somewhere, someone else is doing something - no actual answer will satisfy. They'll just deke a little and pick at something else. To say nothing of the fact that what I said was an opinion. It's not easy to "prove" opinion or feeling. After all, exactly what number/percentage of useless posts is the magic "forum is too frustrating for me" number? You don't know. I don't know. There's no definition.

I mean, I don't really have a vested interest here - I'm new, I don't know anyone here, and I'm sure I can find somewhere else to answer my questions if I want to - and yet can see it's patently obvious that in this thread there are people pretending to be sincere, but intentionally pushing buttons and being jerks. Asking ever-so-politely for examples then niggling over the definition of "jerk" is pretty classic sea lioning. There's no winning an argument with a "sea lion", because they're not actually listening to the answer.

Your mileage may, of course, vary.

Excellent! Well said! Bravo!

Irrelevant after bad user was banned.

ZzzCatcher wrote:... I don't really have a vested interest here...

Me neither (despite the title of this thread making it look like I'm the Root of all Evil)(although I could care less if people think I'm the Root of All Evil - I mean, somebody has to be the Root of All Evil or the play cannot continue).

Hopefully, when The New Order begins, all the Sealioners will be tossed into the Lake of Unquenching Fire as well.

Irrelevant after bad user was banned.

xxyzx wrote:maybe sleepyhead should go open source so anyone can add code
and the crowd can check for spyware or other problems as well as keep it up to date with windoze changes
better yet make it run on linux instead

It's already open source.
You are free to do the work if you have the mind to.
It isn't under lock and key.
No one else has wanted to do the work though. Lots of people with ideas as to what "THEY" would do to improve it but no one actually willing to do the work. So maybe you could put up or shut up.

I don't do code work...so it won't be me.