Which machine?

In another post I mentioned that I am newly diagnosed and need a BiPAP machine. I am self pay (no insurance) and plan to buy my machine outright. Pugsy turned me on to secondwind for previously owned machines and recommended the following:

"Respironics....DreamStation BiPap Auto or the slightly older PR System One 60 series BiPap Auto model 760
or
ResMed....AirCurve 10 VAuto or the slightly older S9 VPAP Auto"

Secondwind has a Respironics DreamStation BIPAP Auto with Heated Humidifier - DSX700H11 for $1125. They also have some ResMed ResMed S9 VPAP/BIPAP Adapt SV Auto with Heated Humidifier for $1249. Any advice between the two? Also, are these overkill for a beginner? I see a ResMed S9 VPAP/BIPAP Auto with Heated Humidifier for $699. Not sure of the difference between the two s9 models. If you can provide any insight, it would be greatly appreciated! I am a firm believe in buy once, cry once philosophy so don't mind spending the money to get a good machine!

One other question...is a heated tube worth it or a gimmick?

I plan to buy my machine online and then buy the mask locally so I can try them out first.

Big difference between the 2 S9 models besides the price.
this one is what you would want

TT wrote: I see a ResMed S9 VPAP/BIPAP Auto with Heated Humidifier for $699.

The other model is what we call an ASV machine and is used when people have either central apnea or a combination of obstructive apnea and central apnea.

From what you said in your other thread there was no mention of centrals so you don't need a machine to treat centrals.

Heated hose is personal preference. Can be added later if you need or want it.
Main job is to prevention condensation in the mask or hose but secondary job is a more consistent humidity delivery.
Condensation in the hose or mask won't hurt you but it is highly annoying and will disturb sleep pretty rudely.
Will you need condensation prevention? Don't know because we don't know what humidity your might end up wanting or needing and the temperature of your bedroom.

Pugsy,

Thanks for the clarifications. No, I do not need ASV. Did not see that in the title of that one machine. Do you prefer that ResMed over the DreamStation? If so, is it solely based on price?

Our bedroom stays at 70° F in summer and 60-65° in winter.

You won't see ASV in the S9 Adapt model...I just know what it is because I have one. It is an ASV but it isn't mentioned in the Adapt model name.
Secondwindcpap has their models listed a bit weird and a person really has to know the models and what part of the description isn't really part of the model name.
Like BiPap...BiPap is a Respironics trademark name but it is commonly used as a generic term but the only real bilevel machines with BiPap stuck on the front of them are Respironics machines.

I think that the ResMed S9 VPAP Auto will suit your needs nicely.
I think in your situation especially nicely because the ResMed algorithm is a bit more aggressive than the Respironics bilevel auto algorithm.
That's why I said target ResMed if at all possible....I have used both brands of bilevel autos and for your situation...if it were me I would go with ResMed.
With the Respironics you might need to use a little more pressure to get the job done than with the ResMed and since it looks like your pressure needs are going to be up there...why not go with a machine that might mean a little less overall. Probably not much but with pressures in the upper teens and 20s...every little bit helps.

TT wrote:One other question...is a heated tube worth it or a gimmick?

Many people won't do without a heated hose. Back when I used the humidifier, I never liked a heated hose because of the extra heat it puts in the bed.

As far as preventing condensation (rainout) in the hose, there are other ways to manage this. A fleece hose cover helps. Positioning the machine so any condensation runs down the hose and back into the machine can help. Turning the humidifier down can help.

You can always order a heated hose later if you have problems with rainout.

One more unit to consider...

ResMed S10 AirCurve VPAP Auto w/ Heated Humidifier for $1,349

So, it boils down to the S9 above, this S10, or the Dreamstation. I don't mind spending the money on the S10 if it is a better machine. Just having a hard time trying to figure out the difference between the two! Any help appreciated!

TT wrote:One more unit to consider...

ResMed S10 AirCurve VPAP Auto w/ Heated Humidifier for $1,349

So, it boils down to the S9 above, this S10, or the Dreamstation. I don't mind spending the money on the S10 if it is a better machine. Just having a hard time trying to figure out the difference between the two! Any help appreciated!

The s9 vpap auto is "last years model" to the aircurve 10 vauto. there's no functional difference in them, just a different physical design.

The resmeds are more configurable than the dreamstation.

TT wrote:One more unit to consider...

ResMed S10 AirCurve VPAP Auto w/ Heated Humidifier for $1,349

So, it boils down to the S9 above, this S10, or the Dreamstation. I don't mind spending the money on the S10 if it is a better machine. Just having a hard time trying to figure out the difference between the two! Any help appreciated!

The ResMed is actually called the the "AirCurve 10 VAUTO".
It replaces the S9.

I just got a brand spanking new AirCurve 10 VAUTO through a local brick & mortar DME.

This is how it was priced by the DME:

AirCurve 10 VAUTO $400.00
ClimateLineAir Tubing $105.00
Heated Humidifier $ 495.00 (WHAT - The humidifier is more than the BiPAP?)
HumidAir Cleanable Water Tub (Dishwasher Safe) $0.00
2 ResMed Hypoallergenic Filters $0.00
Total of $1,000.00

The claim to Medicare has not been processed yet, so I do not know how much Medicare will discount it.
Is it possible the DME priced it at what they know Medicare will pay them?

Anywho, Medicare will pay 80% of their discounted price.
My BC/BS secondary will pay the remaining 20%

Here is a link to this machine on cpap.com for $1,726.00
Note that their version does not have all of the bells & whistles that mine has.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... chine.html

StuUnderPressure wrote:Is it possible the DME priced it at what they know Medicare will pay them?

Probably priced at Medicare allowable prices. That totals up to just about what Medicare allows (depending on where you live as allowed amounts can vary a bit based on locality) on a bilevel machine with the EO470 billing code which is what your machine is.
I wouldn't be surprised if the heated hose fee takes a pretty big hit though.

Pugsy wrote:

StuUnderPressure wrote:Is it possible the DME priced it at what they know Medicare will pay them?

Probably priced at Medicare allowable prices. That totals up to just about what Medicare allows (depending on where you live as allowed amounts can vary a bit based on locality) on a bilevel machine with the EO470 billing code which is what your machine is.
I wouldn't be surprised if the heated hose fee takes a pretty big hit though.

It is listed on cpap.com for only $40.00

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... ve-10.html

Since they added it over what comes with the machine, I guess they are trying to get "market price".

StuUnderPressure wrote:

TT wrote:One more unit to consider...

ResMed S10 AirCurve VPAP Auto w/ Heated Humidifier for $1,349

So, it boils down to the S9 above, this S10, or the Dreamstation. I don't mind spending the money on the S10 if it is a better machine. Just having a hard time trying to figure out the difference between the two! Any help appreciated!

The ResMed is actually called the the "AirCurve 10 VAUTO".
It replaces the S9.

I just got a brand spanking new AirCurve 10 VAUTO through a local brick & mortar DME.

This is how it was priced by the DME:

AirCurve 10 VAUTO $400.00
ClimateLineAir Tubing $105.00
Heated Humidifier $ 495.00 (WHAT - The humidifier is more than the BiPAP?)
HumidAir Cleanable Water Tub (Dishwasher Safe) $0.00
2 ResMed Hypoallergenic Filters $0.00
Total of $1,000.00

The claim to Medicare has not been processed yet, so I do not know how much Medicare will discount it.
Is it possible the DME priced it at what they know Medicare will pay them?

Anywho, Medicare will pay 80% of their discounted price.
My BC/BS secondary will pay the remaining 20%

Here is a link to this machine on cpap.com for $1,726.00
Note that their version does not have all of the bells & whistles that mine has.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... chine.html

If you want to see how quickly they can back-peddle, ask to order the AirCurve Vauto 10 without the humidifier at the quoted price of $400 - just tell them you don't want it. Don't hold your breath waiting for agreement, though. OTOH, if they accept, thank your lucky stars and jump on it - spend the extra $35 or so to buy the tank from somewhere else (our host, CPAP.COM, for instance). This is something that has puzzled me ever since the ResMed AS10 series was released - you cannot buy one without the other: buy the XPAP it comes with the humidifier, buy the humidifier if you could and it would come with the XPAP unit. AFAIK, the humidifier has no separate part number - because it doesn't exist as a separate unit.

QUERY: You state "...their version does not have all the bells & whistles that mine has." - what is missing?

StuUnderPressure wrote: Note that their version does not have all of the bells & whistles that mine has.

There are no alternative "versions" of the aircurve 10 Vauto.

You will probably find the $400 for the machine is their rental price per month. They may bill Medicare this amount, but Medicare pays much less. The other items you mentioned are purchased out right by Medicare at their approved rate which is much less than you were quoted.

Okie bipap wrote:You will probably find the $400 for the machine is their rental price per month.

I forgot about that little aspect.
So the 400 a month is times 13 months for Medicare.
I used to have a chart with the actual allowable amounts for these machines but I lost it and it was a bit old anyway so never tried to find it again.
It's still available at the Medicare web site if a person goes digging in the DPOS documents for whatever region a person lives in.

JimW159 wrote:If you want to see how quickly they can back-peddle, ask to order the AirCurve Vauto 10 without the humidifier at the quoted price of $400 - just tell them you don't want it. Don't hold your breath waiting for agreement, though. OTOH, if they accept, thank your lucky stars and jump on it - spend the extra $35 or so to buy the tank from somewhere else (our host, CPAP.COM, for instance). This is something that has puzzled me ever since the ResMed AS10 series was released - you cannot buy one without the other: buy the XPAP it comes with the humidifier, buy the humidifier if you could and it would come with the XPAP unit. AFAIK, the humidifier has no separate part number - because it doesn't exist as a separate unit.

The ResMed AirCurve 10 VAUTO has a built-in humidifier.
It cannot be separated from the machine.

JimW159 wrote:QUERY: You state "...their version does not have all the bells & whistles that mine has." - what is missing?

The AirCurve 10 VAUTO being sold by cpap.com comes with:
A Standard Water Chamber
Only a SlimLine Tubing
A Standard Filter

My AirCurve 10 VAUTO came with:
A Dishwasher SafeWater Chamber
The ClimateLineAir Heated Tubing
ResMed brand Hypoallergenic Filters