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GoofyUT wrote:Just as an update, its now 10 days that I've been following my regimen of taking 0.5 mg of alprazolam at hour of sleep, and I CONTINUE to sleep like a baby throughout the night with NO awakenings, no trips to the john, nothing but just a good night's sleep, feeling refreshed when I awaken, generally 8 hours or so later. I'm suffering no adversities that I can speak of, and no, I'm not on the street corner trying to score some Xanax to satisfy my addiction.

I'm gonna try to titrate to 0.25mg tonight to see if that works as well. I'll keep you all posted.

Hope this helps someone.

Chuck

IMHO, taking .5 mg of alprazolam (Xanax) at 24 hour intervals will not lead to physical addiction and my sleep doctor more or less said the same thing. The safety of a nightly dose is due to the short half-life of alprazolam. According to the product information: "Using a specific assay methodology, the mean plasma elimination half-life of alprazolam has been found to be about 11.2 hours (range: 6.3-26.9 hours) in healthy adults."

Contrast this to clonazepam (Klonopin) which has a long half-life according to the product information: "The elimination half-life of clonazepam is typically 30 to 40 hours."

I found in my case that .5 mg alprazolam is effective for 6 to 8 hours and .25 mg is effective for 3 to 4 hours. Without medications I never had a problem falling asleep and staying asleep 3 to 4 hours. The problem came during the last 3 to 4 hours of the night so when I awoke at 3:00 a.m. for instance, I would take .25 mg and it would give me that needed additional 3 to 4 hours of sleep.

BTW, when I recently switched from the Swift nasal pillows/mouth taping to the Hybrid mask, I began to sleep better. I now use alprazolam only when I have had a "bad sleep-hygiene day", for example, I drank caffeine after 2:00 p.m., I lifted weights after 6:00 p.m., or I had a late, large or spicy dinner.

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Snoredog wrote: you and Bob are turning into quite the poster children of misinformation, that study has been shot down by nearly every medical statistician who has ever reviewed it. It's only financial sponsor was Resmed, then they boast that it was the only machine to respond to that breathing robot consistently over the years. That is because they were the only technical advisor and major contributor to its funding and design.

I guess if you have a dinosaur machine with an algorithm that hasn't changed in 10 years it should respond the same to a robot from the first test to the last.

Talk about misinformation, where are your facts about this study? I would love to read them if you have them. You make many claims about many subjects, how about backing up some of those claims. I point the folks to a study, I trust they can read this study and decide for themselves if it has merit or not. I didn't weigh in on whether I thought it was good bad or indifferent and if that makes me a "poster child" in your eyes then that is simply another problem that you must overcome.

It seems your agenda is simply ResMed bashing, and that is fine, but please call it what it is. You may think of yourself as the Guru of APAP but you are going to have to prove it to me with some facts.

Bob

Bob... wrote:

Snoredog wrote: you and Bob are turning into quite the poster children of misinformation, that study has been shot down by nearly every medical statistician who has ever reviewed it. It's only financial sponsor was Resmed, then they boast that it was the only machine to respond to that breathing robot consistently over the years. That is because they were the only technical advisor and major contributor to its funding and design.

I guess if you have a dinosaur machine with an algorithm that hasn't changed in 10 years it should respond the same to a robot from the first test to the last.

Talk about misinformation, where are your facts about this study? I would love to read them if you have them. You make many claims about many subjects, how about backing up some of those claims. I point the folks to a study, I trust they can read this study and decide for themselves if it has merit or not. I didn't weigh in on whether I thought it was good bad or indifferent and if that makes me a "poster child" in your eyes then that is simply another problem that you must overcome.

It seems your agenda is simply ResMed bashing, and that is fine, but please call it what it is. You may think of yourself as the Guru of APAP but you are going to have to prove it to me with some facts.

Bob

that post above is mine guested. But also missing from that comparison is SNORE data. Snore changes in a big way how a machine responds.

I would have loved to see what the results were with 8 or 16 minutes worth of continuous snore, just like what you normally see as a OSA patient. Because if they did you would have seen a dramatic difference between machines and how they responded overall.

that is also why that study is worthless, it doesn't mimic the real world breathing patterns.

HI GoofyUT! I use both meds in subject line as needed. I am blessed with a good M.D. who believes in listening to the patient. I'm certainly not addicted, but I do need some help sometimes with anxiety and panic issues. Having the medications on hand, and knowing I can use them if I desire to is calming in itself. And we all know, strapping on that mask at night and praying for a good night sleep can cause oodles of stress even before we fall asleep if we can, and/or STAY ASLEEP.

I agree with GoofProof, you might try breaking the 0.5 alprazolam tablet in half and see if that gets you through the night. If it does your prescription will last twice as long. Have you tried klonopin (clonazepam)? At night I like to take a quarter or half of a 1 mg. clonazepam tablet and it really relaxes me; A whole one calms me and knocks me out with absolutely no hangover feeling the next day... very clear-headed.

Also, another med. to try (and very inexpensive) is an old antidepressant called trazodone... it didn't work well on the market as an AD because it causes much sleepiness; it's not like a modern day SSRI, it works differently; docs prescribe it as a sleep aid and for other uses. It too gives me a good nights sleep; and I'll do anything I need to do to get good sleep! Good luck to you in finding what works for you. Let us know.

Sleep in Peace,
Deb

Yes. Xanax is great.
I took it once for two weeks straight and then quit taking it and I didn't sleep very well for a night or so--I was slightly wired and anxious.
So, now I only take it every now and then.
If you are taking it continually and want to stop taking it, IMHO it is probably a good idea to wean yourself off of it slowly.

Maryb

lawdognellie wrote: A good doctor should know that there is a difference between drug addiction and drug dependence. Drug dependence refers to a physiological dependence, which is not really a big deal. It is only addiction when a person wants a drug at the expense of family, friends, quality of life, etc....

OK, I'm just going to give in to my obsessive pedantry...

Addiction is actually defined by several measurable physiological criteria:

1. Repeated use of substances or behaviors despite clear evidence of morbidity secondary to such use.

2. Escalation of the use of the drug over time, often due to development of physical tolerance.

3. Occurence of physical withdrawal symptoms upon ceasing use of the drug.

The term "addiction" is commonly misused to describe almost anything that people do to excess these days, when the term "dependence" is more accurate. True addiction, as described above, is actually not that common.

Wanting something at the expense of friends, family and health, absent the above symptoms is correctly 'dependence,' not 'addiction,' and for some can be a very big deal indeed. It's psychological in nature, rather than physical, which can be much more difficult to treat.

Word.

Min

SleepyHibiscus wrote:I am blessed with a good M.D. who believes in listening to the patient. I'm certainly not addicted, but I do need some help sometimes with anxiety and panic issues. Having the medications on hand, and knowing I can use them if I desire to is calming in itself.

Exactly, precisely. I wish I was articulate as SleepyHibiscus.

I take the meds only at night; have been doing so for years. I never occurs to me to take the stuff during the day. People are different and and react differently. My experience has not been addiction - some depedancy, maybe - but not addiction.

When you brake it down, a lot of people just drink alcohol to sleep and alcohol - for some people - is one darn addictive, and destructive drug.

So, &%$# the studies

Jerry

My thoughts EXACTLY!!!!!!

Chuck

I ditto Jere and GoofyUT. Just having the script on hand is calming and reassures me; if I choose to take one or not, at least I have the choice. Just like having a doc that won't really hear what you're saying... not having a choice also worsens one's anxiety.

Best wishes to all for a good night sleep.

Goofy

Not being able to sleep is a real problem. Congrats on persisting, to find something.

The only bad thing is, with half of these drugs, ten years later, despite all the money the FDA spends, we end up finding out the real side effects. So, I think we all agree that its better to try things that humans have been ingesting for a 50,000 years or more (!), that our bodies can happily assimilate.

I found a calcium& magnesium product, "Nerve and Osteo" by Country Life, that, when taken with 500 to 1,000 mg of B1, smooths me out enough to sleep. And, its cheap, no prescription needed, and these are substances your body is used to . . . that we have ingested for at least 100,000 years!

David

Hi David. Welcome. It's interesting to read about a natural alternative that works for you. Like many people here, I struggle with falling asleep and staying asleep. Since I take a calcium supplement for my bones anyway, maybe the product you mentioned is worth a try. What amount of Nerve & Osteo do you take at bedtime? Do you use B12 at all? What combination works for you?

Hi Sleepy,

I take from two to four tablets of the Nerve & Osteo and a gram (1,000 mg) of Twin Labs B1. I don't take B12 before going to sleep . . . have not tried it. The Nerve & Osteo acts as a muscle relaxant. The B1 really smooths out the nervious system. Neither has ANY grogginess in the morning, dopiness, etc. And, they supply important nutrients.

Most calcium and magnesium is taken together, because they are used together in the body. Now, most of the time, the ratio of cal to mag, in cal mag products, is 2 cal to one mag.

Nerve & Osteo is the opposite, because its the magnesium that is a muscle relaxant (and helps with the nervious system smoothing out also). In fact, low magnesium correlates with heart irregularities. Nerve & Osteo has some other ingredients, that aid the over all affect.

Now, here comes the warning: ever heard of Milk of Magnesia? A thick white liquid? It is a traditional . . . laxative! And, guess what that "magnesia" is. Yes, you are right, magnesium!!!

So, don't take six of these Nerve & Osteo tabs in the morning, before going to an appointment. 3-5 hours later, you better be around a toilet. Nothing exposive, but what the magnesium does is pull water into your lower intestens, so, when you have to go, you have to go. Actually, not a bad, natural cleaning out (LOL).

Now, at up to four tabs or so, I don't experience the laxative affect . . . and when I have taken three tabs, then, a bit later, three tabs, the worse that happens is some loose bowels in the morning.

None of this is bad. And, as mentioned, below five tabs, no laxative affect, and above five, the affect is probably even healthy.

I would start out with two tabs, in the evening, two hours before you want to go to sleep (they take some time to dissolve). Then, move up to three tabs, then four, etc. until you hit the needed level (while seeing how senstive you are to the magnesium laxative effect).

BTW, the Nerve & Osteo and B1 is GREAT during the day (moderation with the Nerve & Osteo!) to help with stress, etc. That, coupled with a walk around the block, some extroversion, etc. is a natural way to try to handle things.

Nerve & Osteo is made by Country Life.

Best,
David