Love RespCare Hybrid but ASV doesn't???

palerider wrote:

NateS wrote: No matter how I tightened, loosened and/or adjusted the Hybrid during that 3 minute period, I got a continuous red face;

can you try it again with a hand mirror, and strip of tissue and move it around the sides, etc, (anywhere except the vents) and see if there's any leaking you aren't feeling otherwise? a strip of kleenex should be easily blown by air currents you might not feel as easily by hand.

are all six vent holes equal in size?

That's a very good idea! I will try the kleenex test too!

Yes all six vent holes appear equal in size.

Regards, Nate

An even better breeze detector can be easily extracted from an old down jacket or vest.
Look for a quill trying to make an exit, and pull it out. Your coat will never miss a single down fluff,
and they respond to the slightest air current.

chunkyfrog wrote:An even better breeze detector can be easily extracted from an old down jacket or vest.
Look for a quill trying to make an exit, and pull it out. Your coat will never miss a single down fluff,
and they respond to the slightest air current.

Very clever, chunky!

I think I still have an old downfill-lined long winter coat stashed in the front closet! Will see.

Regards, Nate

I found my hybrid in my stash of "tried but didn't like no matter how much I wanted it to work" masks, and measured the holes, as best as I could, they're right at 1.77mm in diameter, or just barely big enough for at T6 torx driver but not big enough for a t7....

if that helps.

Well, I haven't found a feather yet, but I tried the kleenex last night and tried to drag it all around the running Hybrid but couldn't see any breeze or movement, except in front of the exhaust vents of course.

Out of curiosity, I then ran the Mask Fit test, got the constant big red angry face again, until out of curiosity I placed my finger over two (no change with only one) of the exhaust holes and the big face on the VPAP screen immediately changed from the angry red guy to a happy green fellow for the entire remainder of the three minute test! I tried the 3 minute Mask Fit test a second time and it happened again. Wow! (I filed that experience in my brain, and playing safe pending further thought and discussion, I put down the Hybrid and used my old Wisp for the night.)

Now I certainly don't want to asphyxiate myself while trying to treat my apnea, but in my search for and reading about the Hybrid on cpaptalk and elsewhere via google, I seem to have a vague recollection of two instances where something like this was mentioned:

One recollection was of a report by a Hybrid user I think on cpaptalk who stated that, after he talked to an employee of the company over the phone, he plugged one exhaust vent with a broken-off piece of a toothpick; he worded this carefully as if to not directly attribute what he did to what the employee said; only that his toothpick insertion occurred immediately after the phone conversation, and he implied that it ended the leak problem.

The second recollection was of my reading a quote somewhere of a leak discussion with a Hybrid representative who used the words "our overly generous exhaust system" or words to that effect, while talking about solving leak problems with the Hybrid.

Any comments or reactions to the above would be appreciated.

Regards, Nate

As an afterthought, I just plugged "Hybrid" and "toothpick" into cpaptalk and got these hits, including one with a different Nate (coincidence):

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14097&p=118618&hili ... ck#p118618

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14881&p=125578&hili ... ck#p125578

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15934&p=134321&hili ... ck#p134321

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17621&p=150274&hili ... ck#p150274

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18847&p=162085&hili ... ck#p162085

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19842&p=171365&hili ... ck#p171365

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19842&p=171658&hili ... ck#p171658

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23575&p=204429&hili ... ck#p204429

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23575&p=204511&hili ... ck#p204511

I noted some talk about the ResMed S8 but I don't think the S9 was even out yet then.

Regards, Nate

NateS wrote: "Hybrid" and "toothpick"

Be careful reading those old posts. Innomed did revise the vent. I have an original shell somewhere in the drawers. The vent holes are larger than on the revised shell. It has been maybe 8 years since the revised shell was released and the original shell was discontinued.

The mask should seal against one as closely trimmed as you show in the photo.

What if you hold your fingers over the vent holes while you are trying the mask test? Can you hear air exhausting from other places? Will a mask fit smiley icon appear?

I found this in one of your links:

CVANCE wrote:Hello,

My name is Christianna Vance and I am the product manager for sleep therapy at Teleflex Medical, representing the Hybrid mask. I had a chance to speak with a customer today who was asking for clarification regarding the email trail below.

For clarification, we have indeed made changes to both the headgear and exhalation ports on the Hybrid. The headgear upgrade became effective in November 2006 and the change to the exhalation ports became effective in December 2006. There have been no other product changes to the Hybrid since December 2006. The versions on the instructions for use manual (REV A,B,C,D,E) have to do with any change that have been done to theinstruction manual. Revision B represents the change in the manual that references the headgear and Revision C represents the change to the exhalation ports. All other Revisions (D,E etc.) have nothing to do with the actual product, rather changes that have been made to the instuction manual itself (change in address, phone number etc).

I hope this isn't too confusing. Please know that we have been providing the most up to date Hybrid product since January 2007 and it is used effectively with all Autopap, cpap and bipap devices.


I hope this clarifies things for you!

Have a great weekend,

Christianna Vance

So they revised the vent ports in December 2006. I think the mask was released in August 2006. So there should be very few out there with the original, larger vent ports. I have one of them in some drawer.

Sheffey wrote:So they revised the vent ports in December 2006. I think the mask was released in August 2006. So there should be very few out there with the original, larger vent ports. I have one of them in some drawer.

Nate, this makes me wonder if it's at all -- even remotely -- possible that a new but original version of the mask was sent to you.

Maybe you should call cpap.com on Monday and tell them what you have found with the vent holes and your mask check and refer them to this thread. kaiasgram maybe on to something about an older mask getting into the system and you got it. Stranger thinks happen sometimes.

The only way to know for sure would be with Nate's actual mask--in a lab.
One could use a mic to measure the air holes, but nothing matches actual flow measurement.
Right now, it's every party claiming it is someone else's fault. Lovely!
I would simply stop using the mask unless the manufacturer wants to step up and make things right.
And now a few hundred more people know the problem may not be all gone forever.

do you have any way to measure the size of the holes?

caliper, small tool. they should be under 2mm in diameter. (at least, on mine they are)

chunkyfrog wrote: Right now, it's every party claiming it is someone else's fault. Lovely!

We're just trying to solve a mystery, not find fault.

IF the mystery is due to something not being "right" then it possibly could be somebody's "fault".
If, on the other hand, it is something else, then it would be nobody's fault.
If the manufacturer is willing to defend their product, we are waiting.

Sheffey wrote:

NateS wrote: "Hybrid" and "toothpick"

Be careful reading those old posts. Innomed did revise the vent. I have an original shell somewhere in the drawers. The vent holes are larger than on the revised shell. It has been maybe 8 years since the revised shell was released and the original shell was discontinued.

The mask should seal against one as closely trimmed as you show in the photo.

What if you hold your fingers over the vent holes while you are trying the mask test? Can you hear air exhausting from other places? Will a mask fit smiley icon appear?

Sheffey, if I hold my finger over two vent holes, Mr. Angry Red Face disappears and Mr. Happy Green Face appears and continues to smile at me until I remove my finger or when the 3 minute test ends. If I cover only one vent hole, Red continues to scowl at me.

It's difficult to find an objective statement as to what "Adaptive Flow Technology™" means and how it works - only a subjective statement: "resulting in an extremely quiet sleep experience" which I can only suppose means reduced noise due to reduced intentional leak.

Regards, Nate