S9 - Waking up? Leaks?

For those of you who have switched from another machine to the S9, here are my questions:

In RobySue's incredibly helpful post detailing the differences between the S9 and the System One, she stated that because of the S9's rapid response to events, it was somewhat more like than the the System One to wake you up and cause leaks . Because I am considering which of these I want to buy, I'm wondering when you switched to the S9 from your old machine did you notice that you seemed to wake up more? Did you notice that you had more leaks?

In answer to both your questions...no and no.
Neither machine will chase leaks with massive pressure increases trying to fix/compensate for the leaks.

Neither wake ups or leaks increased when I changed to S9 from using PR S1. I couldn't tell any difference myself but then I slept through the machine increasing pressure in response to apnea events with increase that were quite high and often never had a leak associated with the pressure increase.

Wake ups from minor leaks that might come about because mask fit changes with varying pressures...they can happen depending on the type of mask and the mask fit.
My nasal pillows pretty much don't move at all no matter what the pressure...be it the starting minimum when I was using APAP machine and it would often reach 18 cm...the nasal pillows stuck.
Now if I had been using a nasal cushion or full face mask where there is simply more real estate to seal...that might have been a different story but there are people using full face masks with high degree of varying pressures who maintain a good seal.

On the other side of things ...there are people who wake up with the tiniest of leak no matter what the cause.
Those people would wake up no matter how the machine responded in all likelihood. They are just sensitive to leaks.

So a lot it is going to depend on more your own sensitivity to things and the type of mask you use than it is going to depend on the response time for either brand of machine.
Response time sensitivity...if varying pressures disturb sleep (leaks not a factor) I suppose the PR S1 machine's slightly slower way of going up and down would be a better option. I think the majority of cpap users would probably do well with either brand...but there are minority of users who might do better with one brand over another.

I'm sensitive to any leaks at all. I've spent 600.00 bucks trying to find the perfect mask. I always end up back at
the ResMed Mirage Quattro. Yes it has issues, but it would have saved me a few bucks to stop searching for
the perfect mask and start adjusting my use i.e. sleep positions to accommodate the mask. If I do that, I
have few events that wake me now. Perhaps the mask gets "broken in" like a good pair of hiking boots but
it seems that the longer I deal with it the better it performs.

prion wrote:I'm sensitive to any leaks at all. I've spent 600.00 bucks trying to find the perfect mask. I always end up back at
the ResMed Mirage Quattro. Yes it has issues, but it would have saved me a few bucks to stop searching for
the perfect mask and start adjusting my use i.e. sleep positions to accommodate the mask. If I do that, I
have few events that wake me now. Perhaps the mask gets "broken in" like a good pair of hiking boots but
it seems that the longer I deal with it the better it performs.

The mask is training you how best to use it *smile*.

millich wrote:For those of you who have switched from another machine to the S9, here are my questions:

In RobySue's incredibly helpful post detailing the differences between the S9 and the System One, she stated that because of the S9's rapid response to events, it was somewhat more like than the the System One to wake you up and cause leaks .

That's not quite what I said.

What I said is that some people might find the more rapid increase in pressure may lead to more wakes or more leaks. For most people, it's not going to make much of a difference.

But if you are highly sensitive to such things, the rapid increase in pressure might be disturbing.

And if you're someone who has problems with leaks caused by the pressure going up, then you might have more problems with the S9.

Pugsy wrote: On the other side of things ...there are people who wake up with the tiniest of leak no matter what the cause.
Those people would wake up no matter how the machine responded in all likelihood. They are just sensitive to leaks.

So a lot it is going to depend on more your own sensitivity to things and the type of mask you use than it is going to depend on the response time for either brand of machine.
Response time sensitivity...if varying pressures disturb sleep (leaks not a factor) I suppose the PR S1 machine's slightly slower way of going up and down would be a better option. I think the majority of cpap users would probably do well with either brand...but there are minority of users who might do better with one brand over another.

I'm a good example of this.

I am super sensitive to leaks, so if there is any kind of leak, I wake up and the mask comes off. Whether I manage to get it right back on or go an hour or two before a bathroom break varies. I'm still working on that. But for the most part, my leak like is just about flat zero. Even with pressures up to 17. I can sleep through pressure changes galore, just not leaks. I'm always surprised to see the pressure spikes in my graphs when I had a smooth night and don't remember anything worthy of waking up.

I think it really comes down to what a person is sensitive to and what they can sleep through. There are people who are awakened by the changes in pressure, so a straight pressure or slower changing pressure is better. People like me can't stand any kind of leak. I am bothered by leaks I can barely hear but can't feel. I hated the sound of my mom's old cpap machine (when sharing a hotel room), but my S9 is so quiet, I barely notice it. My mom has one now, and I waved my hand in front of her face to make sure it was on.

Don't forget.... the machine pumps the air.... the mask (and how it fits) will determine leaks. Jist sayin'

Sheriff

Folks are talking about 'leaks' here and waking up because of them. Let me ask a question, please. What is it about the 'leaks' that wakes you up specifically? Is it the noise it makes? Is it something your feeling on your face? What? Please explain in more detail EXACTLY what sensation you are waking up to. Thanks!

DAG wrote:What is it about the 'leaks' that wakes you up specifically? Is it the noise it makes? Is it something your feeling on your face? What

Bear in mind I am a nasal pillow mask user...so any leaks I notice are going to be at the nasal pillows as my mouth breathing leaks are a different story.

For me...its the feeling of the air blowing around my nostrils that would wake me up. I have noticed it either with wrong size of nasal pillows that didn't seal well...but mainly if I didn't have the tension on the straps snug enough.
If straps aren't just right the nasal pillows move around and air will escape out of the nostrils blowing on my upper lip area or just a diffused little stream of air blowing where it shouldn't on my cheek. So I guess I feel the air. I don't really hear anything all that different.
Nasal pillows aren't known to create a lot of noise like face farts though..
My most noticeable leaking using a nasal pillow mask came from when I tried the Bella Loops with my Swift FX and I simply didn't have the straps (loops) tight enough the first night. The nasal pillow was sliding around because it was too loose and I felt the air blowing around my nose.

So for me...it's something that I feel that is not normal so I can't tune it out. Normal sensations the brain tunes out.
Things that are abnormal...the brain says "hey dude, wake up, something is not normal"...and I wake up.

DAG wrote:Folks are talking about 'leaks' here and waking up because of them. Let me ask a question, please. What is it about the 'leaks' that wakes you up specifically?

Like Pugsy, I'm a nasal pillows users. The "leaks" that wake me up are the ones that seem to find a way to blow towards my eyes. I say "leaks" because the problem is not always unintentional leaking; if the jet stream intentional exhaust flow from my mask hits the covers in just the wrong way, it bounces back into my eyes, and that can wake me up.

The very rare mouth leak, however, almost never wakes me up anymore. But from the data, I know these leaks are seldom very long (maximum length is usually less than 15-20 minutes) and for whatever reason, they're almost never large enough for Encore to flag as an official Large Leak: In over three years of using a System One BiPAP, I've had a grand total of 3 or 4 Large Leaks, all of which were less than 10 minutes long, and none of which woke me up.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Sorry I misquoted you, RobySue.

It's the noise of leaks that will wake me up. Is it caused by rapid increases in pressure? Probably not. But the fact that the S9 might respond to events quicker and that for some people that might mean more leaks jumped out at me. I sure don't want to choose a machine that might cause an increase in leaks. If it's not much of a risk, I'm leaning toward the S9.

I'm rarely bothered by leaks but about once every month or two, I'll have a night where my nasal mask leaks, and leaks, and leaks. Nothing I do stops it. Then the next night I'm just fine. Go figure.

Thanks again, all.

I have experienced several different types of leaks, all of which bother me.

When I first put on the mask, I sometimes have leaks near my eyes. Sometimes I can feel them. Sometimes I just hear the hissing. Either way, the mask comes off, and I redo it until I can go to bed without leaks.

Sometimes during the night, I will wake up with a leak, usually caused by drool that makes the mask slippery and move around.

Back when I started, I would get lots of leaks due to the mask moving around as I moved around. Both hissing and air blowing on my face. On rare occasions, I also had the mask farting sounds. I found that a smaller size of headgear fixed that problem.