Fatigue and Hunger

Here's the next chapter of the saga. So on the Swift LT mask, I was getting better...felt great! Then, it suddenly started leaking and not doing well. I figured, ok, I had used it for 1 month, time to go and I had no spares. I had a doctor's appt the next week so I decide to use my Swift FX mask, which I did have fresh pillows for. The FX felt like it had leaks and Lansinoh wasn't helping much. (note that this is the reason I switched to the LT in the first place). I go to the doctor, get my prescription and order stuff.

Meanwhile, I'm getting more and more tired. I had explained this to the doctor and she changed my range of pressure up to 9-15 since my average was 11ish. Great. But I'm still quite tired.
After several days of REALLY being tired and having a "normal" AHI of < 1, managable leak (same pattern as when I felt good!), I've started to become ravenous. Hungry! It's almost out of control. I was actually starting the downward trend of weight...and was feeling less hungry and life was good. But when I started to wake up tired, I started to become sooo hungry.

Since it's Saturday, I decided to let my body decide when it wanted to wake up. So I went to bed at 9pm last night...finally woke up at 9am and then was still tired so I dozed off again. I know that "too much sleep" isn't good...but really, I let my body decide and it wanted that much. I admit that I was getting concerned that my machine wasn't getting pressure into my airway so I opened my mouth briefly to prove to myself that air was getting in there...and it was. So I don't think the machine is broken.

I anticipate that my new pillows will be here next week and I can use my LT mask. I bought enough spares for the next 3-6 mos (max that insurance would pay for).

Questions:
1. Have you noticed hunger level to be associated with fatigue level?
2. Can a mask make this much difference?

MitzyG wrote:Here's the next chapter of the saga. So on the Swift LT mask, I was getting better...felt great! Then, it suddenly started leaking and not doing well. I figured, ok, I had used it for 1 month, time to go and I had no spares. I had a doctor's appt the next week so I decide to use my Swift FX mask, which I did have fresh pillows for. The FX felt like it had leaks and Lansinoh wasn't helping much. (note that this is the reason I switched to the LT in the first place). I go to the doctor, get my prescription and order stuff.

Meanwhile, I'm getting more and more tired. I had explained this to the doctor and she changed my range of pressure up to 9-15 since my average was 11ish. Great. But I'm still quite tired.
After several days of REALLY being tired and having a "normal" AHI of < 1, managable leak (same pattern as when I felt good!), I've started to become ravenous. Hungry! It's almost out of control. I was actually starting the downward trend of weight...and was feeling less hungry and life was good. But when I started to wake up tired, I started to become sooo hungry.

Since it's Saturday, I decided to let my body decide when it wanted to wake up. So I went to bed at 9pm last night...finally woke up at 9am and then was still tired so I dozed off again. I know that "too much sleep" isn't good...but really, I let my body decide and it wanted that much. I admit that I was getting concerned that my machine wasn't getting pressure into my airway so I opened my mouth briefly to prove to myself that air was getting in there...and it was. So I don't think the machine is broken.

I anticipate that my new pillows will be here next week and I can use my LT mask. I bought enough spares for the next 3-6 mos (max that insurance would pay for).

Questions:
1. Have you noticed hunger level to be associated with fatigue level?
2. Can a mask make this much difference?

I suspect it's the pressure changes that are wrecking your sleep. Your breathing changes as you go into a deep sleep stage or REM and the machine senses that and thinks it has to increase pressures........when that happens, you are bumped out of your needed sleep stage.

How are your leakage numbers? Any chance you're leaking your therapy air out your mouth?


Den

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1. Have you noticed hunger level to be associated with fatigue level?

Sleep deprivation triggers "hunger" hormones. This is why people with untreated OSA put on weight.

This video talks about it

Another connection between loss of sleep is weight gain. If you sleep around about five hours or less every night, then you have a 50 percent likelihood of being obese. What's the connection here? Well, sleep loss seems to give rise to the release of the hormone ghrelin, the hunger hormone. Ghrelin is released. It gets to the brain. The brain says, "I need carbohydrates," and what it does is seek out carbohydrates and particularly sugars. So there's a link between tiredness and the metabolic predisposition for weight gain.

I don't think that I'm leaking much out my mouth because the leak is relatively low and usually, if I have a breeze out my mouth, I do wake up and close my mouth. The other thing is...I watched my numbers in Sleepyhead, yes, it changes pressure throughout the night. But it was doing that when I was feeling good and now when I'm feeling bad. So that alone isn't the issue.

Thanks for the video...I'll tell you, I'm really convinced that weight gain/loss is a wee bit more than pure calories in/calories out. For MOST people, it's probably correct. I think there are other factors in some people. Otherwise, I would have lost more than 3 lbs in 3 mos on an 800 calorie diet with high exercise (which I measured using a heart rate monitor because I was worried that I wasn't "in the zone"). I started seeing hope once I felt good on CPAP. I cut my sugar consumption (which was excessive...). I had cut the caffeine - not to 0, but I felt like I was getting there. It's demoralizing to be here. The only thing that keeps me going is my shipment of good nose pillows and a supportive doctor. So if the nose pillows don't fix it, I may call and see if I should come in earlier (she wanted me to come back in 6 wks...1 week has passed thus far).

MitzyG wrote:I don't think that I'm leaking much out my mouth because the leak is relatively low and usually, if I have a breeze out my mouth, I do wake up and close my mouth. The other thing is...I watched my numbers in Sleepyhead, yes, it changes pressure throughout the night. But it was doing that when I was feeling good and now when I'm feeling bad. So that alone isn't the issue.

Thanks for the video...I'll tell you, I'm really convinced that weight gain/loss is a wee bit more than pure calories in/calories out. For MOST people, it's probably correct. I think there are other factors in some people. Otherwise, I would have lost more than 3 lbs in 3 mos on an 800 calorie diet with high exercise (which I measured using a heart rate monitor because I was worried that I wasn't "in the zone"). I started seeing hope once I felt good on CPAP. I cut my sugar consumption (which was excessive...). I had cut the caffeine - not to 0, but I felt like I was getting there. It's demoralizing to be here. The only thing that keeps me going is my shipment of good nose pillows and a supportive doctor. So if the nose pillows don't fix it, I may call and see if I should come in earlier (she wanted me to come back in 6 wks...1 week has passed thus far).

It sure could be. You may NOW be more sensitive to pressure changes.
"Low numbers" DON'T necessarily mean "good sleep quality".

Go back to straight pressure and see if things improve.


Den

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When you sleep does it feel deep and restful or shallow and restless, and how much do you seem to wake during the night?

Have you ever been diagnosed with fibromylgia or thyroid issues? Before I was on CPAP and early in my therapy I experienced the fatigue and hunger something like you described. I had no thyroid issues then but was diagnosed with thyroid problems later. I remember the hunger, I would get up at night, eat in my sleep, then realize it the next morning. I feel strongly that their is a link to OSA, sleep eating/hunger and fibromylgia. I think years of untreated OSA led to these problems.

I hope for you getting new pillows helps, but if your numbers are good with minimal leaks, it sounds like there is still a missing piece to your puzzle. I hope your doctor can help you find that missing link.

Jen

I HAD deep sleep on the CPAP. It suddenly went away. I know that good numbers doesn't make good sleep...unfortunately, I know that first hand.

I've been checked for everything...Thyroid, hormones etc. The sleep apnea was one of the last things that I haven't been checked for! Now I'm getting that fixed and I think I'm happy about it. Ok...I'm happy to be addressing it. Not happy with the result at the moment.

Life got miserable starting when my Swift LT started leaking. Now, it could be coincidental to that and have some other cause. But I really hope that getting a new pillow will help...

The most interesting thing....before the doctor changed the pressure, I was averaging 11, max of 12.something. She raised it from 7-13 to 9-15. And my average and max is roughly the same! The doctor felt that since my average was 11 that moving it up to 9 minimum would mean that I would be closest to the average and the machine wouldn't need to change as much.

I'm reluctant to go back to 11 cpap because that was so miserable that I didn't sleep well at all! It was worse than I am now! Now, if this doesn't get better after the new pillows, I may reconsider.

800 calories a day will cause fatigue and hunger. It's not enough to support anyone's daily function and it can lead to loss of lean muscle mass. Your thyroid will down regulate to try to preserve homeostasis. Add in heavy exercise, and you are on a path to self destruction. Bad news!

If weight loss is your goal, you need to be eating natural, whole, nutrient dense foods including healthy fats (not industrial seed an nut oils like canola and soy!) and getting adequate calories.

No wonder you feel so bad! You are absolutely right that it's not a matter of calories in, calories out. THIS may be why you are having such poor sleep all of the sudden, too, not the other way around.

Recommended readling: Gary Taubes Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It and/or Good Calories, Bad Calories.

I've lost 70 lbs eating about 1500 calories a day, mostly fat, and not much exercise comparatively. If calories in, calories out was true, I'd be heavier instead.

ETA, I never trust a doctor to say a thyroid test is "normal". First, they often only test TSH which is not a good indicator o thyroid function. In calorie restriction you have to look at free T3 and free T4, which still may be in normal ranges, but if high or low normal could be indicative of too much caloric restriction. Secondly, the laboratory range for TSH is typically up to 5 (5.5 for my lab!) but the NORMAL range of TSH is only up to 2. Endocrinologists recognize this but general care physicians usually do NOT.