Restorative Sleep

Hello Everyone,

Just read a post where someone was asking about the stages of sleep. I have been up for several days now without any sleep, and waiting for doctors to call and all that other good stuff.

So my memory right now is terrible, but when I had my sleep sudy, they said I had sleep apnea, and that was it, they gave me my machine and that was that.

Well I have my mahcine and I am faithful to use it every night. I am still very tired.

At one point I was thinking I might have to go on disability as I was very ill, I got the paper work and when I read through it, it stated that I didn't get into Rem and that doc or and so should follow up.

So my question is my sleep apnea is under control, at least that is what my machine tells me, but what about my brain and my sleep pattens. Can I get those test? If so, is there a way to do it at home? I still never feel rested, no matter how much I sleep. Though I have depression and other things going on, it seems to me that maybe alot of my problems are coming from me not getting into restoritive sleep.

I bought one of those zeo's I think it was called, but it wasn't helpful. Is there anything we can do to find out if we are really getting restoritive sleep? Could alot of my problems be that I have something going on with my sleep paterns. I mentioned it to my cnt doc and he said tthat my apnea was under control, and he saw no reason to go any further, but my depression flared up last week and I had to leave my job.
I am trying to get into a hospital for treatment, and I have been on a roller coaster ride, to get the immediate help I need. I am so frustrated, and after reading that post, I was wondering if my quality of life has been so bad because maybe my brain isn't working.

Is there something that can be done at home that would be accurate, done by a doctor. It would seem to me that I would only get some real results from doing it at home, as the sleep lab I have to take meds and can't sleep. So what is one to do.

I would hate to think maybe that this is a major reason that I am so sick.

Who would you even go to talk to someone about this. I don't think my ent specialist is that good, it seems it is out of his realm. I think I brought it up to him and he dismissed it. I am now only thinking about it again as I am trying to get hospitalization treatment and have been denied. At the moment, Pray that my doctor can kick some Ass, sorry to be crude, but I am in grate mental pain and they can't give me any treatment for another month. I'm just miserable.

SleepingBearDoNtWake wrote:it seems to me that maybe alot of my problems are coming from me not getting into restoritive sleep.

I bought one of those zeo's I think it was called, but it wasn't helpful. Is there anything we can do to find out if we are really getting restoritive sleep?

Lack of restorative sleep will definitely do a number on you, especially after many months.

A Zeo won't fix it, but for me it was very helpful in charting the progress of my sleep. Before ASV, I was getting essentially no REM (maybe a 5-minute spike or two a few times a week). After ASV, I have very nice sleep architecture, with 1-2 periods of deep sleep, and multiple REM cycles like clockwork. (Most nights.)

The down side is that it's not a medical device, so a clinician can't legally diagnose you based on its output. When I saw my sleep doctor, she was interested to see what it showed, but she still had to order a sleep study to get real, validated data.

What does your Zeo chart show?

Could alot of my problems be that I have something going on with my sleep paterns. I mentioned it to my cnt doc and he said tthat my apnea was under control, and he saw no reason to go any further, but my depression flared up last week and I had to leave my job.
I am trying to get into a hospital for treatment, and I have been on a roller coaster ride, to get the immediate help I need. I am so frustrated, and after reading that post, I was wondering if my quality of life has been so bad because maybe my brain isn't working.

I'm so sorry for your troubles! Lack of restorative sleep can definitely cause depression and cause all sorts of problems.

Is there something that can be done at home that would be accurate, done by a doctor. It would seem to me that I would only get some real results from doing it at home, as the sleep lab I have to take meds and can't sleep. So what is one to do.

As far as I know, the only home tests are respiratory (for apnea). I don't know of any that do EEG.

And EEG requires lots of wires.

Who would you even go to talk to someone about this. I don't think my ent specialist is that good, it seems it is out of his realm. I think I brought it up to him and he dismissed it. I am now only thinking about it again as I am trying to get hospitalization treatment and have been denied. At the moment, Pray that my doctor can kick some Ass, sorry to be crude, but I am in grate mental pain and they can't give me any treatment for another month. I'm just miserable.

Ask for a referral to a neurologist. An ENT is only going to know about apnea (if that), and may know nothing at all about sleep. Not all neurologists will be experts on sleep either.

But any doctor who dismisses your concerns without providing a solution should be likewise ignored. I have a relative whose primary doctor, pulmonologist, and ENT all insisted that she couldn't possibly have apnea, despite her sleeping problems. She pushed it, found her own sleep lab, got the study, and low and behold, AHI=50+.

I remember being hugely frustrated, discouraged, and without the energy to fight when I wasn't sleeping. Hang in there! Don't give up!

SleepingBearDoNtWake wrote:Hello Everyone,

Just read a post where someone was asking about the stages of sleep. I have been up for several days now without any sleep, and waiting for doctors to call and all that other good stuff.

So my memory right now is terrible, but when I had my sleep sudy, they said I had sleep apnea, and that was it, they gave me my machine and that was that.

Well I have my mahcine and I am faithful to use it every night. I am still very tired.

At one point I was thinking I might have to go on disability as I was very ill, I got the paper work and when I read through it, it stated that I didn't get into Rem and that doc or and so should follow up.

So my question is my sleep apnea is under control, at least that is what my machine tells me, but what about my brain and my sleep pattens. Can I get those test? If so, is there a way to do it at home? I still never feel rested, no matter how much I sleep. Though I have depression and other things going on, it seems to me that maybe alot of my problems are coming from me not getting into restoritive sleep.

I bought one of those zeo's I think it was called, but it wasn't helpful. Is there anything we can do to find out if we are really getting restoritive sleep? Could alot of my problems be that I have something going on with my sleep paterns. I mentioned it to my cnt doc and he said tthat my apnea was under control, and he saw no reason to go any further, but my depression flared up last week and I had to leave my job.
I am trying to get into a hospital for treatment, and I have been on a roller coaster ride, to get the immediate help I need. I am so frustrated, and after reading that post, I was wondering if my quality of life has been so bad because maybe my brain isn't working.

Is there something that can be done at home that would be accurate, done by a doctor. It would seem to me that I would only get some real results from doing it at home, as the sleep lab I have to take meds and can't sleep. So what is one to do.

I would hate to think maybe that this is a major reason that I am so sick.

Who would you even go to talk to someone about this. I don't think my ent specialist is that good, it seems it is out of his realm. I think I brought it up to him and he dismissed it. I am now only thinking about it again as I am trying to get hospitalization treatment and have been denied. At the moment, Pray that my doctor can kick some Ass, sorry to be crude, but I am in grate mental pain and they can't give me any treatment for another month. I'm just miserable.

Well, the first question that comes to my mind is "WHY?" (have you been up for several days without sleep)

Next one is "What are your pressure settings?"
I see you have an S9 Autoset. If you're running it in a range of pressures, THAT could be what's wrecking your sleep and leaving you miserably tired. Your breathing changes when you enter a deep sleep stage or REM and the machine may think that it has to increase pressures. When that happens, you're bumped out of that needed sleep stage into a lighter sleep stage and you feel less rested.


Den

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SleepingBearDoNtWake,

I'm sorry you're going through such a rough time right now.

Some questions and comments:

1) When you say the "Zeo didn't help", what do you mean? The Zeo doesn't treat any kind of sleep problems, but it can give a person some inkling of an idea of whether they're getting into REM or stage3 sleep. But note: The Zeo is not particularly accurate in distinguishing REM from WAKE or LIGHT (stage 1 or2) sleep. My Zeo constantly overscores WAKE and underscores REM in my opinion. So my question is really: When you say the Zeo didn't help, do you mean that it indicated that you were getting into REM and stage 3, but you don't believe you are getting into them? Or do you mean the Zeo indicated a lot of WAKE, but it didn't help you figure out what to do about it?

2) Why have you been awake "for several days now without any sleep"? Have you tried to sleep, but not been able to? Or have you been too wired, too anxious, too keyed up to even try getting to sleep?

3) You say, "Well I have my mahcine and I am faithful to use it every night. I am still very tired." What are your overall sleep patterns like? How often do you have a period of several days where you cannot get any sleep? How often do you get less than 4 hours of sleep? How often do you get less than 6 hours of sleep? How often do you get too much sleep---as in 12 or more hours at one time?

4) How badly messed up is your sleep hygiene? Have you got any kind of a "sleep schedule" at all? Or are both bedtime and wake up time all over the place? Any chance you've got a circadian rhythm problem in addition to everything else? In other words, are you staying up all night because your body is a night owl? Or is there something else going on?

5) You say, "my depression flared up last week and I had to leave my job. I am trying to get into a hospital for treatment, and I have been on a roller coaster ride, to get the immediate help I need. ... I am now only thinking about it again as I am trying to get hospitalization treatment and have been denied. At the moment, Pray that my doctor can kick some Ass, sorry to be crude, but I am in grate mental pain and they can't give me any treatment for another month. I'm just miserable." What symptoms or conditions are you attempting to get admitted to a hospital for? Is it the depression and "great mental pain" that you are seeing hospital level help for???

6) You say, "Who would you even go to talk to someone about this. I don't think my ent specialist is that good, it seems it is out of his realm." Possible brain problems (whatever you mean by that), serious depression problems, and sleep problems that go beyond simple OSA are out of the realm of an ENT's specialty. If you are worried about neurological problems in your brain, then a neurologist with some training in sleep medicine might be a good choice for who to consult. For the depression? You need a good psychiatrist or psychologist. Some psychiatrists have some training in sleep medicine, so that's another thing to look for.

Finally, it sounds to me like you've got a serious problem with sleep, but the question is: What's the cause of the sleep problems? It sounds like the cause of your current sleep problems are NOT untreated/undertreated OSA. It could be the depression. Although the connection between bad sleep and depression is one of "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Regardless of whether the depression caused the start of the sleep problems or the sleep problems caused the start of the depression, you're currently trapped in a nasty positive feedback loop: The worse the sleep is, the worse the depression becomes and the worse the depression is, the worse the sleep becomes. They feed on each other, making both problems get worse.

It sounds like you need professional help from an appropriate doctor.

And what kind of mask are you using? Does it seem to fit well or are you aware of big leaks (and what about mouth breathing?)?

We'd like to help, but need a bit more info.

Hi SleepingBearDoNtWake,

Could the meds you are on for your depression be causing insomnia? Even ones that allegedly help with that can have a paradoxical effect as that happened to me when I was on psych meds.

Of course, check with your doctor but I wanted to offer another possibility for you to consider.

49er

SleepingBearDoNtWake wrote:Hello Everyone,

Just read a post where someone was asking about the stages of sleep. I have been up for several days now without any sleep, and waiting for doctors to call and all that other good stuff.

So my memory right now is terrible, but when I had my sleep sudy, they said I had sleep apnea, and that was it, they gave me my machine and that was that.

Well I have my mahcine and I am faithful to use it every night. I am still very tired.

At one point I was thinking I might have to go on disability as I was very ill, I got the paper work and when I read through it, it stated that I didn't get into Rem and that doc or and so should follow up.

So my question is my sleep apnea is under control, at least that is what my machine tells me, but what about my brain and my sleep pattens. Can I get those test? If so, is there a way to do it at home? I still never feel rested, no matter how much I sleep. Though I have depression and other things going on, it seems to me that maybe alot of my problems are coming from me not getting into restoritive sleep.

I bought one of those zeo's I think it was called, but it wasn't helpful. Is there anything we can do to find out if we are really getting restoritive sleep? Could alot of my problems be that I have something going on with my sleep paterns. I mentioned it to my cnt doc and he said tthat my apnea was under control, and he saw no reason to go any further, but my depression flared up last week and I had to leave my job.
I am trying to get into a hospital for treatment, and I have been on a roller coaster ride, to get the immediate help I need. I am so frustrated, and after reading that post, I was wondering if my quality of life has been so bad because maybe my brain isn't working.

Is there something that can be done at home that would be accurate, done by a doctor. It would seem to me that I would only get some real results from doing it at home, as the sleep lab I have to take meds and can't sleep. So what is one to do.

I would hate to think maybe that this is a major reason that I am so sick.

Who would you even go to talk to someone about this. I don't think my ent specialist is that good, it seems it is out of his realm. I think I brought it up to him and he dismissed it. I am now only thinking about it again as I am trying to get hospitalization treatment and have been denied. At the moment, Pray that my doctor can kick some Ass, sorry to be crude, but I am in grate mental pain and they can't give me any treatment for another month. I'm just miserable.

You should be able to play with the buttons on the S9 and read the screen for the SLEEP REPORT and give us the numbers of:
Pressure;
Leak;
AHI;
Total AI;
Total Centrals;

If you are on any anti-depressants for your symptoms, talk to your doctor (DON'T DISCONTINUE ANYTHING YOURSELF)--many medications will suppress REM and/or slow wave sleep. If you are on anything for anxiety, some medications for that will also disrupt sleep architecture. Sit down and with your doctor and have a full audit done.