Mask w/suction?

I'm curious, with so many people having trouble with leaks, why hasn't anyone thought of using suction? The CPAP is already sucking air in anyway. The vacuum from that could be applied to a second tube which connects to an outer chamber of a mask. Some cleverness would be needed in the mask design to ensure that air leaking from the inner chamber doesn't escape into the vacuum chamber, lest you poison yourself w/CO2 (a 2nd motor would solve the problem). Seems like it would be a highly effective solution!

How would you collect the air that is being flowing out from inside the mask to the outside all around the mask over your face? Would you have another mask over the regular mask on your face with a suction and then pipe it to the air inlet of the CPAP? Another approach is to keep your body inside an air tight box. The box will have two holes. In one hole you insert a tube to deliver the air to your mask on your face. In the other hole you have a tube from the box to the air inlet of the CPAP. Both tubes are sealed to the box. Is this what you're saying? Such boxes have been used as Iron Lungs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_p ... ventilator

The vacuum doesn't really need to cover the whole mask, just where it contacts the face. Air could then still escape from the places it escapes today, which is typically on the back of the mask (away from the patient). However, your approach would work as well I think, with two superimposed masks. I imagine it would be harder to maintain a high pressure inside the mask if it empties into another with lower pressure, though to maintain suction you probably don't need much. Doing it quietly would also present a challenge, since there'd be limited room to dissipate the airflow into.

Iron Lung looks neat - thanks for the link. Heard of it but never really read about them. Looks creepy.

The double wall silicone masks are designed to use the Bernoulli principle to draw the mask surface and skin together--not exactly suction, but if you adjust it right, you can have a cling effect without waking up with a huge hickey on your face.

Mask leaks cause problems in two main ways:
1) They get so large that the CPAP machine can't keep up and the pressure in the mask drops below the therapeutic level or the machine can no longer sense when a change in pressure is required for proper treatment.
2) The leak gets so large (and noisy) that the patient's sleep is disturbed by the leak it self.

Leaks occur when the pressure inside the mask exceeds the mask's capability to contain the pressure and somewhere on the mask edge, the edge lifts and air leaks out. Adding a vacuum system outside the mask to capture the leaking air and recycling it lowers the external mask pressure and therefore increases the likelihood that the edges of the mask will leak.
Pumping the captured leaked air back into the system is what the CPAP blower is supposed to do to compensate for the design mask leak and the mask seal leaks that occur. The external pump would have to be controlled in some fashion to make sure that the pressure within the mask is at the correct therapeutic level. But that is exactly what the CPAP controller and sensors are supposed to do anyway.

I think it is a neat idea outside of the normal box when thinking about how to control leaks but I don't think it will be possible to implement it in an effective fashion.

Just a thought.

I am waiting for a mask molded to my nose.

On earth, air, is not costly to be worth collecting. My be on Mars. The whole thing of suctioning CPAP leaks is silly.

penuel wrote:On earth, air, is not costly to be worth collecting. My be on Mars. The whole thing of suctioning CPAP leaks is silly.

But better than using a stapler, or crazy glue! Jim

How many spokes would you use if you were going to reinvent the wheel?