STUPID pillows

Hi All
Background 100% compliant and generally very happy with therapy. British system not as in touch as US system so not waiting for doctors bought my own machine from USA. I also have oldish resmed mirage liberty hybrid mask, medium size nasal pillows, I’m a man with a fairly big nose, I’m sure medium is right – still on UK waiting list so NO free treatment available to me, no money left to import any further kit. In short, this mask must work until I get proper treatment. This forum has been source of help and it has generally worked, using lanolin and lately elastic tights trick to help

Trouble is conventional pillows and nasal pillows – pillows in general, stupid pillows

I’m a side sleeper, that’s good isn’t it? I have tried therapy at my settings on my back and I jolt awake with snoring /apnea as soon as I go under

So I sleep on my side, the mask gets moved and the left pillow loves shooting out on bad nights. I’m building up a fear of it happening that won’t relax me properly as what was insomnia , fear of apnea, has now become insomnia fear of that nose thing happening – and it is so so infuriating. This anger also doesn’t help me get back to sleep once I’m up fixing the thing again.
The tights/panty hose trick has really helped, but lately the left pillow just goes for it anyway as my face relaxes into the (bed) pillow. There are two of these , need two as broad shoulder frame. Knowing this I try and sleep on my left side so the mask is scrunched up in my favour on the left nasal pillow and less likely to pop out. On my right (previously my preferred side) it loves popping out and waking me up

I am starting to wonder whether this mask is right for me at all but what choice do I have?

I THINK it’s happening because my left is a slightly deviated septum, it hurts a little some nights and what I think goes on is resistance is higher, so that pushes the pillow outwards, I’ve never had any trouble with the right until of course I compensate so much for the left’s bad behaviour I leave a skewed mask without any real support for the right pillow. Lanolin helps I make sure I don't use too much, the strip joining the pillow on the mask is intact, I wash the mask all the time, I don’t use oil moisturiser, I'm clean shaven, I use the tights trick every night, to my knowledge I’m doing everything right I should be doing right yet some nights it just won’t stay in and the popping out replaces the apnea. Both wake me up. So on those nights, with therapy it's damned if I do damned if I don't. I know therapy is important so to date I've stuck it out on these nights and not taken the mask off.

In future I need a mask that keeps my mouth shut, I like that feature on the mask and I need it because if my mouth opens much it's game over mask or not due to enormous gene simmons tongue and great big useless flappy thing built designed and patented in hell itself that is noisier than a hammer drill, but these nasal pillows don't seem right for me, whatever I do. They're not designed for side sleeping, which is a bit of a silly thing considering apnoea is worse on the back. ultra tight alien on the face style, in my humble opinion, is what is required for these things to be effective on side - but this produces other more seroius problems such as the pillows being pulled up/down at the wrong angle and far too compacted leading to two wind tunnel updrafts not one, and this is accentuated in winter as you notice cold air more, so I have it as tight as can get away with. But if you're on your side, it's going to move with relaxation, and in my case when it moves, the forces of physics, push the left nasal pillow out, seeking the path of least resistance, which is cold unforgiving air right into my eye and a jolting awake like I used to get snoring. ...........as I say, screwed either way.

Can anyone provide any advice? Don’t say up the pressure and sleep on back, that’d hurt my nose more and I’d end up on my side anyway. I can’t afford a pap pillow. I can’t afford a new mask import. Can I do anything with regular pillows to stop pressure on the mask I do try and sleep at the end of the pillow but my face needs some support

Thanks all

Andy

andy5805 wrote: I can’t afford a pap pillow. I can’t afford a new mask import. Can I do anything with regular pillows to stop pressure on the mask I do try and sleep at the end of the pillow but my face needs some support

Hi Andy. Before I spent money to purchase a CPAP pillow I experimented with a home remedy. I was inspired by something I saw on Amazon. http://smile.amazon.com/CPAP-PILLOW-TAM ... llow+strap



I found an old cloth belt and wrapped it longways around my pillow; then put a pillow case over it. That created an indented area at the end of the pillow.

That is a great idea for the pillow. I think I may have a similar problem with the leaks. No matter what I do or what mask I use I have large leaks when I lay on my left side. I sleep mostly on my right side but my back hurts and I have to roll over. I have tried a lot of different masks types and for me I have this same issue with all of them.

Is it possible that the nasal pillow has grown tired and needs to be replaced?
How long has it been in use? Was the mask one that you tried way back long ago and failed cpap ...only to take it up again with this current machine?
So it has been opened and/or used for quite some time?

With any of the nasal pillow masks people seem to say that the nasal pillows tend to want to collapse or move so that seal is broken easily.

Pugsy wrote:Is it possible that the nasal pillow has grown tired and needs to be replaced?
How long has it been in use? Was the mask one that you tried way back long ago and failed cpap ...only to take it up again with this current machine?
So it has been opened and/or used for quite some time?

With any of the nasal pillow masks people seem to say that the nasal pillows tend to want to collapse or move so that seal is broken easily.

I've tried them both ways round because I thought that. They've collapsed once in my time using it and that's because at the time I was gearing it up insanely close to my nose to try and stop leaks.

and yes it's the same one, but I never used it more than a week the first time around. Can't wait to get seen "properly" so I have resources open to me like new masks!

love the belt idea. I've got loads of karate belts, one of them might work

going to bed now to get back a night's lost sleep. I think cold air is an issue too, I tend to confuse cold air out of the valve more with a possible leak (that is or isn't there) as it bites more. going to set a heater on min tonight

GREAT night last night

things I learned last night on evil moving pillows


1. for me the tights trick means spread out tights over tip of nose as well as pillows- if it's a sharply rolled in band just over the pillows it pulls them in, then out
2. cold is very important, if it's too cold escaped air from the hybrid mask exhaust valve mimics a possible leak on the face leading to corrective action possibly then creating a leak where there wasn't one!
3. too much lanolin is worse than never opening the stuff, but I knew that anyway

...point 2 being annoying because I can sleep in extreme cold and now have to pay more in heating, will get round this by convector fan , 400W very low output, then further throttled via a timeswitch set to come on in x amount of minutes an hour intervals. this is possible as I've already insulated the hell out of the top of the house so in theory should not cost me an arm and a leg........... like bipap has, but the latter has been worth every penny

best regards
Andy

andy5805 wrote:3. too much lanolin is worse than never opening the stuff, but I knew that anyway

Been there and done that...thought if a little works great then a lot must move mountains. Woke up with nasal pillow in my ear.

Did you get the heat hose upgrade kit with your machine? I forget.. That should help the cold air issue unless your like your bedroom a whole lot colder than I like mine and I like mine pretty cold.

Pugsy wrote:

andy5805 wrote:3. too much lanolin is worse than never opening the stuff, but I knew that anyway

Been there and done that...thought if a little works great then a lot must move mountains. Woke up with nasal pillow in my ear.

Did you get the heat hose upgrade kit with your machine? I forget.. That should help the cold air issue unless your like your bedroom a whole lot colder than I like mine and I like mine pretty cold.

hahaha.. I have this friend that works out, and never gets any results, I tell him it's because he overtrains. I think we're all brought up that more is better, it's counter intuitive to think the other way...but as the stuff retails at 9.99 GBP, I'm happy to retrain my thought process!

I do have the heated tube, was never sure how effective it was, though as I know no different I could quite easily try a none upgraded model and feel like I'm Bear Grylls going to the north pole. On a cold night here it's between 7 and 10 degrees Celsius sometimes, I'm a bit of a scrooge about spending money so if I can tolerate cold, then no heating money in the bank for better things - , I don't know quite when the tipping point is, but there's a definite point where cold air gets special powers and starts blurring sensation. Specifically my face knowing where the icy blast came from. If I'm going to go all DIY on the mask in bed leading to silly results I could have avoided by hands off, then I'm trying to train myself to move the hose connector first to rule that out, take a deep breath of bipap enriched atmosphere, then see if that so called leak is a real one before adjusting sealed pillows. I guess the whole thing is in with the above ethos of the western world - you work you do more, you work on something harder you get more, but the reality is often more like... if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Regards
Andy

The heated tube will help but remember it has to start with room air temp and if the bedroom air temp is quite cold the little heater coils can't always get the temperature up to where it doesn't feel so uncomfortable. It can only do so much. Set it at 5 though to give it the best chance.
Adding a hose cozy to it would likely help keep the air warmer so that the hose isn't losing heat due to cooling from the bedroom air.
You can make a cheap homemade hose cozy with some old socks. Just cut the toes out and slide them on the hose and secure with rubber band or tape.
The thicker the socks...the more insulation you get.
Also remember that air hitting the nose is always going to feel somewhat cooler to your skin because it is going to be well below body temp.
It doesn't really matter what the temp of the air is if it is uncomfortable...

If it were me and I was trying to save my pennies on heating costs....I would try some sort of hose cozy first. It just might be enough to get you comfortable. Doesn't have to be fancy but avoid heavy items if you can as the added weight to the long hose can be a real PITA.
I once made a hose cozy our of hand towels. Worked great for insulation but the added weight of each towel all rolled up around the hose darn near pulled my nasal pillows out of my nose...very annoying all night. This is why fleece is so nice...minimal weight and great insulating properties with just a single layer.