Myths about Sleep

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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LDuyer
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Myths about Sleep

Post by LDuyer » Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:48 pm

Thought I'd relay some fun myths in honor of National Sleep Awareness Week and Sleep Apnea Awareness Day. I've read many posts from people. Often people will make comments like "I don't fall asleep while driving, but..." or "I don't really need that much sleep because I'm older," or more. Most of the following is from the National Sleep Foundation, on the subject of some myths about sleep:
The National Sleep Foundation concluded in a 2002 study that "while many Americans enjoy the benefits of sufficient sleep, as many as 47 million adults may be putting themselves at risk for injury, health and behavior problems because they aren't meeting their minimum sleep need." The National Sleep Foundation describes some common myths about sleep:

Myth: You can “cheat” on the amount of sleep you get.
Sleep experts say most adults need between seven and nine hours of sleep each night for optimum performance, health and safety. When we don’t get adequate sleep, we accumulate a sleep debt that can be difficult to "pay back" if it becomes too big. The resulting sleep deprivation has been linked to numerous health problems.

Myth: The older you get the few hours of sleep you need.
Sleep need remains unchanged throughout adulthood. Older people may wake more frequently through the night and may sleep less, but their sleep need is no less than during young adulthood. When older people sleep less at night, they tend to sleep more during the day. Sleep difficulties are not a normal part of aging, although they are all too common.

Myth: Sleep disorders are mainly due to worry or psychological problems.
Stress is the number one reason people report insomnia. However, stress accounts for only a fraction of the people who suffer either chronic insomnia or difficulty staying alert during the day. Sleep disorders have a variety of causes. And there are different types of sleep disorders which are physical health problems, such as sleep apnea, narcolepsy, and others. Most sleep disorders are health conditions which can be treated. Untreated sleep disorders may have serious negative effects, worsening quality of life, school and work performance, and relationships. Worse, untreated sleep disorders may lead to accidents and death.

Myth: Snoring is not harmful as long as it doesn't disturb others or wake you up.
Although snoring may be harmless for most people, it can be a symptom of a life threatening sleep disorder called sleep apnea, especially if it is accompanied by severe daytime sleepiness. Sleep apnea is characterized by pauses in breathing that prevent air from flowing into or out of a sleeping person’s airways. People with sleep apnea awaken frequently during the night gasping for breath. The breathing pauses reduce blood oxygen levels, can strain the heart and cardiovascular system, and increase the risk of cardiovascular disease, stroke and heart attack. Yet 95% of those with sleep apnea remain unaware that they have a serious disorder. The good news is there is treatment.

Myth: “I can tell when I’m going to go to sleep.”
If you're like most people, you believe you can control your sleep. In a test, nearly four-fifths of people said they could predict when they were about to fall asleep. They were wrong. The truth is, sleep is not voluntary. If you're drowsy, you can fall asleep and never even know it. You also cannot tell how long you've been asleep. When you're driving, being asleep for even a few seconds can kill you or someone else.

As to the falling asleep at the wheel, I've heard of several people who did not experience any warning that they were about to fall asleep while driving.


Linda


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dsm
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Post by dsm » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:14 pm

Linda,

A good post as it raises an interesting issue that I haven't really explored before but am keen to discuss with whoever can clarify.

I am interested in the SpO2 (Blood oxygen Saturation) aspect. I will try to keep this simple (but am sure it is not a simple subject )

I gather that the heart of this issue is that during the night, people with Sleep Apnea tend to not get enough air and thus their lungs don't extract enough oxygen at these times and thus their blood drops its level of oxygen saturation (I will ignore the issue of co2 saturation for this thread).

Now into the grey areas (for me) ...

I gather that as soon as the person breathes normally again, their SpO2 will return to normal but that the problem is that whilst their SpO2 dropped, it was doing damage ?

I gather that if I attach myself to a SpO2 machine & get a reading of say 92% (hypothetical), that this is telling me that 'at that instant' I am not getting enough good air into my lungs or my lungs are not extracting enough oxygen, or my haemoglobin is failing to absorb enough oxygen from my lungs.

****************

I have been trying to think through what damage gets done when & how ...

I can imagine that lowered SpO2 means that the muscles etc+ are not getting good supplies of oxygen & can suffer ? - even during sleep.

I can also imagine that because sleep is a time when the body goes through maintenance & tissue repair/replacement, that lowered SpO2 can cause this process not to work as well as it needs to and thus can result in not feeling fit when one wakes up.

If anyone has any good links to info on SpO2 and what it means to have it too low plus what actually causes it to go too low, I would appreciate them being posted here. I am looking for layman language if it all possible.

Thanks

DSM
Last edited by dsm on Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Moogy
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When Oxygen Levels Drop

Post by Moogy » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:26 pm

According to my family practice doctor, when O2 drops below 80%, it actually kills off some brain cells, which cannot be replaced. Now, humans have a LOT of brain cells, so we can do without some of them, but still we don't want to be destroying them for no reason....

My doctor's explanation, as I understood it...

Moogy
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pre-treatment AHI 102.5;
Now on my third auto bipap machine, pressures 16-20.5

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LDuyer
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Post by LDuyer » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:18 pm

DSM,

Doing a quick search, it's hard to find any articles on physiology of desaturation during sleep apnea, or rather the effects of it long term, even short term. Maybe I missed something.

But this description of the sleep apnea cycle is interesting.
It says oxygen levels return to normal levels, but it doesn't say what the effect long term would be of frequent events of low oxygen. I would imagine there's quite a strain.

There can be other problems with people who also have sleep apnea, situations involving lung strength and capacities or effects of other lung conditions like COPD which can affect oxygen, and supplemental oxygen is needed for people who also have sleep apnea. That is true with me, in that due to weak lung capacity, I require supplemental oxygen for my cpap, otherwise my oxygen levels would be restored sufficiently. But that's a whole other story.

The cycle of apnea:

The apneic patient falls asleep

Muscle tone in the body relaxes

Airway narrows and/or collapses, causing breathing to be difficult or impossible.

The collapse of the airway may cause loud snoring, snorts, pauses in airflow, and labored breathing

Oxygen levels begins to fall.

The apneic patient continues to struggle for breath…time goes by…10, 20, 40 seconds…and longer…

Heart rate falls below normal—there is decreased oxygen to pump through the body.

Brain senses low oxygen/high carbon dioxide level, releases jolt of adrenaline—“fight or flight” response—to awaken brain and body and prevent suffocation.

Sleeper awakens briefly, takes five or six large breaths, breathing in oxygen and blowing off excess carbon dioxide (CO2). Sleeper typically does not remember arousal. Sleeper often repositions him or herself on the bed.

Heart rate speeds up in response to rush of adrenaline—now pumps above normal heart rate.

Oxygen/carbon dioxide levels return to near normal. Brain allows sleeper to resume sleeping.

Sleeper falls asleep.

Muscle tone relaxes…

Cycle repeats.


Sleep Apnea: Phantom of the Night

It is not unusual for an apneic patient to have over one hundred arousals per night due to apnea, though he or she most likely will not remember any of them. This makes apnea suffers—especially those who live alone or sleep in bedrooms separate from their partners—vulnerable to not having their condition diagnosed for many years, if ever.

Severity of sleep apnea is measured by three variables.

The number of apneic episodes per hour—also known as a respiratory disturbance index (RDI).
An RDI of 5-15/hr is considered mild sleep apnea.
An RDI of 16-30/hr is considered moderate sleep apnea.
An RDI of +30/hr is considered severe sleep apnea.
Levels of oxygen desaturation. Normal waking oxygen saturation in a healthy child or adult is 96-99%. Normal asleep oxygen saturation in a healthy child or adult is 94-98%.

Click here for link to article


Linda


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rested gal
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Post by rested gal » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:05 pm

Good stuff, Linda! Thanks!



Also thought the Logic test you posted was very interesting.
viewtopic.php?t=8031

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dsm
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Post by dsm » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:34 pm

Linda,

Thanks for the extra lines of thought +0

Cheers

DSM
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kteague

Damage done during episodes of apnea

Post by kteague » Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:48 pm

I too am trying to more intricately understand what happens when our oxygen level drops real low. The remark about losing brain cells interests me because a series of MRIs from 1998 to 2005 have shown a progression from a few tiny scattered spots on one side to "numerous scattered punctate and patchy hyperintense T2 and FLAIR signal supratentorial white matter foci, subcortical more than deep. The largest of these is slightly greater than 7mm ...potentially reflecting nonacute microvascular ischemic mediated disease."

My doctors never mentioned the above findings to me - that's more than a little disconcerting. I read the results when I picked up my records to take to Cleveland Clinic. Have any others with OSA had MRI results that were similar? What did your doctors say?

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Swordz
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Re: When Oxygen Levels Drop

Post by Swordz » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:05 am

Moogy wrote:According to my family practice doctor, when O2 drops below 80%, it actually kills off some brain cells, which cannot be replaced. Now, humans have a LOT of brain cells, so we can do without some of them, but still we don't want to be destroying them for no reason....
quote]

Actually scientists have discovered lately that some brain cells CAN actually regenerate and therefore replace the dead ones. Quite an amazing discovery, as it reversed decades of thought that it wasnt possible. I'll try and locate some sources, as I've not only read it online but also seen on TV.
dsm wrote: I can imagine that lowered SpO2 means that the muscles etc+ are not getting good supplies of oxygen ' can suffer

I can also imagine that because sleep is a time when the body goes through maintenance & tissue repair/replacement, that lowered SpO2 can cause this process not to work as well as it needs to and thus can result in not feeling fit when one wakes up.
I have a soccer injury from high school about 10 years ago. I had ~90% nerve damage in my left leg and the nerve regenerated, but still have numbness/swelling and its something that just isn't 100%. One of my docs (thinking my sleep psych) actually told me about how the body "heals" and does this by releasing hormones during sleep. Without deep, restorative sleep, ones injury can persist. So basically he's told me that my leg may actually get better once I have treated my apnea. He has some patients where similar injuries got better once normal sleep was restored. Keep in mind my O2 desats get as low as 84%. Maybe that's why I feel drunk when I wake up?
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