(O.T) Glucosamine Anyone?

Bought this Liquid Glucosamine at Costco a couple months ago to see if it would be help with some lower back pain and stiffness issues. http://www.wellesse.com/joint_movement_glucosamine.asp
Used to have one of my Dogs on a supplement form of Glucosamine for a bad leg and it seemed to help her. I am amazed that it really does seem to help with my back. I don't pop the Advil like I used to either.
Anyone else use Glucosamine supplements & feel some benefits from it?

I've never heard of it. I may forward this info to my parents.
After tweaking my hip early this morning, I may check into it for myself as well.

Starlette

Kody wrote:Anyone else use Glucosamine supplements & feel some benefits from it?

I take 3000mg of glucosamine/MSM a day.
No doubt it helps.

Lots of people claim it helps. Statistical studies tend not to show any consistent results.

Wikipedia has an article with links to other sources.

There's a lot of money to be made selling such stuff, so you'll find lots of testimonials and links to the subset of studies that can be claimed to support the product the web site is selling.

carbonman wrote:

Kody wrote:Anyone else use Glucosamine supplements & feel some benefits from it?

I take 3000mg of glucosamine/MSM a day, I also use Glucosamine/Chondritin tabs too, just depends on what I buy.
No doubt it helps.[/quoteI use it too, in tab form, it seems to help, I also take lots of "B" B-150 & B-12. Jim

My dad, who is almost 90, started to take Glucosamine/Chondritin about 12 yrs ago for an arthritic knee. It was keeping him from walking up steps easily, and it hampered his bowling stride. After about 2 weeks on it, he was bounding up steps, and to this day, seems not to have any aches and pains. At almost 90, he literally bounces up from a chair and walks without any pain. Truly amazing product! A nice side benefit is it will strengthen your nails and hair tends to grow a bit faster.

DH and I both take glucosamine for lower back and joint pain. We didn't think it was really working, so decided to stop for 3 months to see if there was any difference.

Within a week we were both in noticeably more pain, and DH's hands we so painful he couldn't even grip an empty coffee mug.

After 2 weeks we ditched the 3 month plan and went back on the glucosamine. You don't think it's doing anything as it doesn't magically take all the pain away, but it sure does enough to let you live an almost-pain-free life. Mind you, our joint pain isn't all that bad, except for DH's hands, so not sure the effect glucosamine would have on severe pain.

Cheers,
xena

If it's so good, why doesn't it show any statistically significant results in clinical studies?

archangle wrote:If it's so good, why doesn't it show any statistically significant results in clinical studies?

I was very skeptical of this also, hence one of the reasons I started this thread to see if there were any others that thought it helped. Don't have major problems, mainly arthritis in lower back with stiffness especially after heavy aerobic exercise. Just have noticed a lot more freedom of movement and much less stiffness than without taking it. Possibly like Xena mentioned, maybe it helps with mild and moderate symptoms, but anything major the positive effects wouldn't be as noticeable.

I did notice in that link you posted that it noted:

In most of Europe, glucosamine is approved as a medical drug and is sold in the form of glucosamine sulphate.[58] In this case, evidence of safety and efficacy is required for the medical use of glucosamine and several guidelines have recommended its use as an effective and safe therapy for osteoarthritis.

Hi All

I took glucosamine from when it came on the market about 30 years ago. Today I wish I had saved my money. I stopped using glucosamine just after the report below was published about 12 months ago, and took my unused bottles back to Woolworths and got my money back.

No adverse effects !

The original article was at Medscape -

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/731733

and the large print version is below - note the last sentence -

Glucosamine and Chondroitin, for Hip or Knee Osteoarthritis

by Paul S. Mueller, MD, MPH, FACP

Posted: 11/14/2010; Journal Watch. 2010;30(21) © 2010 Massachusetts Medical Society

Abstract and Introduction

Abstract

Alone or in combination, the supplements do not reduce joint pain or limit joint-space narrowing.
Introduction

Randomized trials on the effectiveness of glucosamine and chondroitin for osteoarthritis (OA) have yielded mixed results; the largest trial showed no benefit for these agents, used alone or in combination for knee OA (JW Gen Med Mar 15 2006, p. 45, and N Engl J Med 2006; 354:795). Now, researchers have conducted a meta-analysis of 10 randomized controlled trials in which about 3800 patients (68% women; median age, 62) with OA of the hip or knee received glucosamine, chondroitin, both supplements, or placebo; all patients were evaluated for joint pain — and some for radiological progression of disease — during follow-ups that ranged from 1 to 36 months.

On a 10-cm visual analog pain scale, the difference in pain intensity (compared with placebo) was –0.4 cm for glucosamine, –0.3 cm for chondroitin, and –0.5 cm for the combination. These results were of borderline statistical significance, but they did not approach the researchers' prespecified minimally important clinical difference of 0.9 cm. Six trials contributed data on radiological joint-space narrowing. Glucosamine, chondroitin, and the combination had no effect on joint-space narrowing. The supplements, either alone or in combination, however, caused no reported adverse effects

Comment

Glucosamine, chondroitin, and the combination are no better than placebo in attenuating joint pain or limiting joint-space narrowing in patients with hip or knee OA. Nevertheless, clinicians likely will encounter patients who are interested in, or report benefit from, using these preparations. In these situations, clinicians should inform patients of the results of clinical trials. For patients who remain steadfast in their desire to take glucosamine, chondroitin, or both, clinicians should be open to empirical trials of these preparations — given their apparent safety — as long as the patients are willing to pay for the compounds.

References

* Wandel S et al. Effects of glucosamine, chondroitin, or placebo in patients with osteoarthritis of hip or knee: Network meta-analysis. BMJ 2010 Sep 16; 341:c4675. (http://dx.doi.org/10.1136/bmj.c4675)

Journal Watch. 2010;30(21) © 2010 Massachusetts Medical Society

It appears that personal experience is what counts in the case of glucosamine, and I wish everybody well with their success in using this product.

cheers

Mars

I tried it back in the '90's but never noticed any significant results, other than increased acne. It did seem to help a dog I had at the time.

Cutting out grains has reduced my chronic joint pain dramatically. I did that about 6 weeks after starting xpap, so you could say I began getting restorative sleep...
I'm not going to experiment to find out.

Hi Everybody

The latest from Medscape is at -

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753885

and the large print version is below -

Joint Supplements for Aromatase Inhibitor Adverse Effects

by Roxanne Nelson

November 18, 2011 (Cleveland, Ohio) — Glucosamine combined with chondroitin might improve arthralgias induced by aromatase inhibitors. An early-phase study showed that the combined use of these agents conferred a benefit in breast cancer patients experiencing joint pain and stiffness related to the use of aromatase inhibitors.

Improvements were observed on several measurement scales, according to the data presented here at the 8th International Conference of the Society for Integrative Oncology.

Aromatase inhibitors are widely used in the treatment of breast cancer but are associated with significant musculoskeletal adverse effects, including joint pain and stiffness. "We know that these symptoms are unresponsive to conventional pain medication and often lead to low adherence to aromatase inhibitor therapy," said lead author Heather Greenlee, ND, PhD, assistant professor of epidemiology and medical oncology at Columbia University in New York City.

"Women who don't adhere to the treatment do not attain the survival benefit," she explained.

Mixed Results

In 2002, a meta-analysis suggested that glucosamine and chondroitin might be effective in relieving pain and disability in osteoarthritis, Dr. Greenlee noted. However, in 2006, the publication of a major randomized trial — the GAIT study — showed that glucosamine and chondroitin, alone and in combination, were not effective after 6 months, especially for treating osteoarthritis.

Despite the negative results, a subgroup analysis did suggest there was a benefit with glucosamine plus chondroitin in patients with moderate to severe pain at baseline.

"Around the time that the results were published, we had been planning on doing this study," she told meeting attendees. "We were trying to decide if this stopped us in our tracks" — whether or not we should go forward to see if this could benefit our patients.

Improvements Observed

Dr. Greenlee and colleagues decided to move forward, and received funding from AstraZeneca to conduct a study. In this phase 2 single-group trial, the researchers evaluated whether they could detect any benefit with glucosamine plus chondroitin in this patient population.

The cohort consisted of postmenopausal breast cancer patents with stage I to III disease who had been on aromatase therapy for at least 3 months, who reported a pain rating of 4 or higher on a 10-point visual analog scale, and whose pain worsened after initiating treatment with aromatase inhibitors if they had preexisting osteoarthritis.

Initially, 53 women were enrolled, but 16 dropped out for various reasons, Dr. Greenlee explained. The study had 2 main end points at 12 and 24 weeks; 40 women completed 12 weeks of the trial, and 37 completed the entire study.

The treatment population was diverse — about 40% white and 40% Hispanic, she pointed out. The median patient age was 61 years. The study participants were generally well educated, tended to be overweight, and were, on average, about 3.5 years postdiagnosis.

"It is important to note that nearly all of the women were on [anastrozole], and the study was conducted before any of the aromatase inhibitors went generic," she said. "It is also important to note that the people who participated in this study were very interested in the use of complementary modalities."

Participants took 1500 mg/day of glucosamine and 1200 mg/day of chondroitin, and were evaluated every 6 weeks at the clinic. The primary end point of the study was change in the Outcome Measure in Rheumatology Clinical Trials and Osteoarthritis Research Society International (OMERACT-OARS) criteria at 24 weeks.

Secondary end points included changes in the Western Ontario and McMaster Universities Osteoarthritis (WOMAC) Index, Modified Score for the Assessment and Quantification of Chronic Rheumatoid Affections of the Hands (M-SACRAH), and Brief Pain/Stiffness Inventory-Short Form (BPI-SF). The visual analog versions of the WOMAC and the M-SACRAH were used for this study (range, 0 to 100 mm), where a higher score reflects a worse outcome.

"OMERACT-OARS was the primary outcome in the GAIT study, and we wanted to model our study on the way the GAIT study was designed," Dr. Greenlee explained.

There was a drop in pain and stiffness in the hips and knees at 12 and 24 weeks, as well as improvement in function. "This affected about 50% of the women," she explained. "We saw a very similar pattern looking at the hands and the wrist. We saw similar results with the Brief Pain/Stiffness Inventory — with about 35% to 50% of women."

She pointed out that they also wanted an objective measure of any change, so they tested women with the Martin Pneumatic Squeeze Dynamometer, which is a grip strength bulb. Over the course of the study, women strengthened their grip strength on 3 different measures.

For the primary end point, the women have to meet 1 of 2 parts of the criteria, explained Dr. Greenlee. They have to either have an improvement of 50% or greater on one of the function scales, including a 10% change on the global assessment scale, or a 20% or more improvement on the pain and function scale and a significant change in the global assessment scale.

At 12 weeks, 38% of women met these criteria; at 24 weeks, about 46% of women met the criteria. "We said in our protocol that if 50% or more of these women met the criteria, we would go on with a subsequent study," she said. "We are right on the borderline, so we are trying to decide what to do."

For the secondary end points, there was significant improvement in the mean WOMAC score at 24 weeks, compared with baseline, in both the function domain (mean difference, 11.9 mm; P = .01) and the pain domain (mean difference, 10.7 mm; P = .02). However, a significant improvement was not observed in the stiffness domain (mean difference, 7.5 mm; P = .15).

The M-SACRAH scale showed results similar to those observed on the WOMAC scale. There was a significant improvement in function at 24 weeks (mean difference, 8.4 mm; P = .02) and in the pain domain (mean difference, 12.9 mm; P < .01), but no significant improvement in stiffness (mean difference 7.9 mm; P = .13).

The most common adverse effects reported were headache, dyspepsia, and nausea.

"Glucosamine and chondroitin appear to be safe in women with breast cancer, and may confer a benefit for aromatase-inhibitor-induced pain," concluded Dr. Greenlee. "We're not sure if OMERACT-OARS is the best end point for studies like this, and we're considering pursuing this as a future study."

Gary Deng, MD, president of the Society of Integrative Oncology, doesn't see the mild improvements observed in this study, or in other trials looking at complementary modalities, as necessarily being a negative. "We always have to look at risk vs benefit," he told Medscape Medical News. "If an intervention is low risk, you may have a lower threshold of effect size. But even in chemotherapy, some of the effect size is not that great. In some cases, it may only be 5% or 10%, or extend life by just a few months."

"We have to keep things in perspective and not only make an evidence-based clinical decision; a lot of the time, we have to make a judgment call and look at the patient as a whole," Dr. Deng added, "and take into account what's important to them."

The study was funded by AstraZeneca.

8th International Conference of the Society for Integrative Oncology: Abstract 4. Presented November 10, 2011.

Mars

For me: no effect whatsoever.
But it took years to figure out it was actually patellofemoral syndrome--not arthritis.
My PCP caught it. -- to my great relief.
The orthopedist was all set to REPLACE my knee joints, but there was nothing wrong with them--just lousy tendons.

Kody wrote:Bought this Liquid Glucosamine at Costco a couple months ago to see if it would be help with some lower back pain and stiffness issues. http://www.wellesse.com/joint_movement_glucosamine.asp
Used to have one of my Dogs on a supplement form of Glucosamine for a bad leg and it seemed to help her. I am amazed that it really does seem to help with my back. I don't pop the Advil like I used to either.
Anyone else use Glucosamine supplements & feel some benefits from it?

Kody

As an alternative, there are studies that show taking fish oil supplements can improve arthritis and stiffness issues.