Paleo Diet - Good Quiz

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rocklin
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Re: Paleo Diet - Good Quiz

Post by rocklin » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:05 pm

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As I play Mr. Duckworth's quiz, I'm finding him more and more physically attractive, even if he does seem a bit of an easy lay:


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Image

.........

Image


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Imho, you almost can't go wrong with the Paleo diet, as it's core values seem the classic "99%" Signal Compliant.

But that last 1% is a killer, imho.



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Last edited by rocklin on Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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host98

Re: Paleo Diet - Good Quiz

Post by host98 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:55 am

The modern world is a turbulent place, with few things ever certain. Anyone who was following science and health news in the late 1980’s is familiar with this, as scientists and doctors struggled for months over the seemingly straightforward question of whether eggs were good or bad for a person’s health.
This problem is made even worse by the persistent rush that the western, developed world lives in as there is little time for a New York socialite to eat well in the rush of the city life. This leads to fast food eating, pre-packaged foods, processed everything, and completely unnatural ingredients filling our pantries and bodies.

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rocklin
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Re: Paleo Diet - Good Quiz

Post by rocklin » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:34 am

NightMonkey wrote:Some people are successful in multiple choice; others are successful in life.
But can't one be successful in both?

If I can't succeed in life, can't I succeed in my beloved butterfly hunting?

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Oh, man did this thing ever turn out to be a marketing scam:

http://users.rcn.com/mcherni/PaleoQuiz/
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NightMonkey
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Re: Paleo Diet - Good Quiz

Post by NightMonkey » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:27 am

"Ever notice how 'What the hell' is always the right answer?" - Marilyn Monroe

Remember, Marilyn was before the internet and "WTF?".

I thought you guys would talk about the paleo diet and the quiz???
NightMonkey
Blow my oropharynx!

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rocklin
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Re: Paleo Diet - Good Quiz

Post by rocklin » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:08 am

NightMonkey wrote:"Ever notice how 'What the hell' is always the right answer?" - Marilyn Monroe

Remember, Marilyn was before the internet and "WTF?".

I thought you guys would talk about the paleo diet and the quiz???
It's called foreplay, and it's derailed many a post.

Wait a minute, that didn't come out right.
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rocklin
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Re: Paleo Diet - Good Quiz

Post by rocklin » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:27 am

OK, roc, focus.

Honesty, it was terrible.

I didn't give the quiz honest answers, just the ones I figured he was looking for.

That's why I scored so high.

He takes a damn good idea, and then kills it with his lack of discipline.

He thinks he "knows" the answers before he speed-reads the literature.

That's it in a nutshell.
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NightMonkey
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Re: Paleo Diet - Good Quiz

Post by NightMonkey » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:22 am

rocklin wrote: I didn't give the quiz honest answers, just the ones I figured he was looking for.
Confessing I did the same.



rocklin wrote:in a nutshell
He is influencing your choice of metaphors.
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BlackSpinner
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Re: Paleo Diet - Good Quiz

Post by BlackSpinner » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:06 pm

NightMonkey wrote:I surprised myself by scoring 20 out of 22.

I am expecting 22/22 by Slartybartfast.

http://www.veri.com/t/the-paleo-diet-10 ... paign=Quiz
It reminds me of kiddy tv. The worst kind.
I quit at 4

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rocklin
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Re: Paleo Diet - Good Quiz

Post by rocklin » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:46 pm

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Vader wrote:I flunked big time.

But hey, I lost 32 lbs in 10 weeks on my low carb diet!
Vader, short of amputation, there is no bad way to lose 32 lbs.

Unless you live in the UK, but that goes without saying.

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host98 wrote:as scientists and doctors struggled for months over the seemingly straightforward question of whether eggs were good or bad for a person’s health.
You say "struggle", I say "profited".

But then, I skew, dew you?

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host98 wrote:This leads to fast food eating, pre-packaged foods, processed everything, and completely unnatural ingredients filling our pantries and bodies.
A choice that we arrived at on our own?

Or one that was "pressed" from above, and I don't mean that Higher Authority, but, you know, the trillion-dollar food industry, which just might, just maybe . . . have a financial interest in the outcome?

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NightMonkey wrote:
rocklin wrote: I didn't give the quiz honest answers, just the ones I figured he was looking for.
Confessing I did the same.
edit, tmi, redacted.

Image

rocklin wrote:in a nutshell
NightMonkey wrote:He is influencing your choice of metaphors.
Sir, such sublime prose may—or may not—be tolerated in a serious thread.

It sure ain't at binarysleep.

BlackSpinner wrote: It reminds me of kiddy tv. The worst kind.
I quit at 4
Like a complete fool, I had to see what lay at the end of this spoon-fed bag of free range potato-chips.

It was, of course, an ad.


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So, for me, the question remains to be answered:

1. What is better: Paleo or X?

2. Why?

3. How do you know what you think is true, is, indeed . . . true?

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Last edited by rocklin on Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vader
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Re: Paleo Diet - Good Quiz

Post by Vader » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:04 pm

rocklin wrote: Vader, short of amputation, there is no bad way to lose 32 lbs.
I'm afraid that Mrs. Vader would disagree.

She's had to have her gall bladder removed since being on the high protein (high fat) diet.
Her doc says the diet "may have" been too much for her gall bladder.
However, I remain in stellar health, considering surviving a near fatal car crash a couple years ago.
(I'll tell ya, the bones don't heal as good when you get old. )

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Re: Paleo Diet - Good Quiz

Post by rocklin » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:58 am

This is from my archive, but it suits this subject:

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http://abundantbrain.com/2010/09/why-de ... -is-wrong/


THE BLOG

It was an interesting read, in more ways than one.

The blog was well written, and seemed to make a logical case that Ornish was either dishonest, or failed to really look at the underlying data.

I've learned that literature debates are much like jury trials: no matter how compelling the prosecutor's opening statement may seem at first glance, the opera ain't even begun till the defense makes it's counter statement. Then there's the meat of both cases: witnesses, evidence, cross and recross.

Preston's blog about Ornish would be the prosecutor's opening statement. And I'm not well versed enough in observational studies to critique his argument just on it's face value.

Nothing there to disagree with. On the subject of blogging, there's an interesting reference to Ornish in the following: http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

THE COUNTER

Since the prosecutor's (Preston) case was posted in an obscure blog, rather than a prestigious, peer-reviewed medical journal, it's unlikely Ornish will address him directly.

But if there's enough outcry on the blogosphere, Ornish may respond in a more public form, like the Huffington Post.

I found an interesting quote on Ornish by Anthony Colpo, who calls himself an "independent researcher":

"The Multicenter Lifestyle Demonstration Project sought to apply the intervention in Ornish's original trial to a larger group of patients recruited from clinics across the US.(40) Practitioners from eight medical centers around the country were trained in all aspects of the Lifestyle program, which they proceeded to administer to patients with coronary artery disease. The study was not a randomized, controlled trial; instead, outcomes in the 194 patients who completed the intervention were compared with 139 patients who did not take part in the Lifestyle program.

After 3 years, there were no significant differences in cardiac event rates nor mortality between patients in the intervention and control groups. The number of cardiac events per patient year of follow-up when comparing the experimental group with the control group was as follows: 0.012 versus 0.012 for myocardial infarction, 0.014 versus 0.006 for stroke, 0.006 versus 0.012 for non-cardiac deaths, and 0.014 versus 0.012 for cardiac deaths (none of the differences were statistically significant)."



FINDING PRESTON

Failing a direct mano a mano, it's worthwhile taking a closer look at the contenders.

The blog was written by someone named "Preston". This person ran his blog from May to November of 2010, then stopped.

Typically, most science bloggers are delighted to feature their full names and CVs.

Not Preston.

Clicking on the blog's "About", "Bio" or "Contact" tabs brings up blank pages. Rather strange.

I had to do a bit of Googling detective work until I was able to figure out who Preston is and what his credentials are.

It's listed in exactly one webpage, an MCAT prep course outfit called The Princeton Review. At the bottom of the page, in tiny print, they mention they're not affiliated with Princeton University.

http://www.princetonreview.com/medical/ ... go-ca.aspx


IN THIS CORNER, FIGHTING AT FLYWEIGHT, PRESTON SWIRNOFF

Preston Swirnoff, Ph.D.

"Preston has been teaching MCAT Biology for The Princeton Review since 2000 and has been a consistent student favorite. He received his Ph.D. in neuroscience from UCSD where he studied neurodegenerative disease and brain metabolism. Preston has conducted post–doctoral research at the Stein Institute for Research on Aging and currently runs his own nutrition and wellness consulting practice."

Sounds qualified enough.


BUT WHERE'S THE BEEF?

Since he has a Ph.D in nueroscience, and has conducted post–doctoral research at the Stein Institute, I eagerly turned to Google Scholar to read his published papers.

I tried and tried, but no matter how I entered his name or field of science, I came up with . . . zilch.

Not even a short letter in an obscure, non-peer reviewed journal, not a book, not a pamphlet, nothing.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en ... =&as_vis=0

(Hit search scholar button)

A Ph.D researcher without a single word in Literature Land? Hmm . . .

Using my wife's name, position and NYU Medical email addy, I sent off an email to The Stein Institute for Research on Aging asking if Preston ever conducted research for them. That was early this morning, and they haven't gotten back to me yet.

Let me know if you do find out anything.


AND IN THIS CORNER, FIGHTING AT HEAVYWEIGHT, DEAN ORNISH

Ornish holds a Bachelor of Arts from the University of Texas at Austin and earned his M.D. from the Baylor College of Medicine. He served a medical internship and residency at Massachusetts General Hospital.

He has received several awards, including the Kellermann Memorial Award for distinguished contribution in the field of cardiovascular disease prevention from the International Academy of Cardiology, and the Beckmann Medal from the German Society for Prevention and Rehabilitation of Cardiovascular Diseases

ORNISH'S PAPERS

Ornish's initial study was a randomized controlled trial known as the Lifestyle Heart Trial, with data published in the Lancet in 1990. The Lancet is the most prestigious medical journal in Europe, comparable to The New England Journal of Medicine here in the states.

His follow-up studies were published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, and the American Journal of Cardiology, equally prestigious journals. The competition to be published in any of these world-class journals is intense, and they only publish the cream of the crop of medical papers. It goes without saying that the published papers are thoroughly peer-reviewed.


I AIN'T GONNA LIE

It's been a while since I reviewed Ornish's work, so I re-reviewed his old papers and closely read two studies of his I wasn't familiar with.

As I said, I ain't gonna lie: I was blown away.

Except for population size, his studies are, imho, impeccable and utterly groundbreaking.

Although he fully randomized his patient selections, in two of his studies, his experimental groups (the ones doing the Ornish lifestyle changes) were far sicker than his control groups.

All patients had severe cardiovascular disease. Their disease was monitored by invasive angiogram, the gold standard for cardiac imaging.

I've had an angio done, and while not painful, the concept is hair-raising: the surgeon threads a wire up your leg or your arm and directly into your heart. The wire injects a radioactive contrast medium and then the results are sharply imaged.


DA SKINNY

I'll just cut to the skinny. In all Ornish's experimental patients, the lifestyle changes simply reversed their heart disease.

The degree of change was directly related to how closely each patient followed his protocol.

None of the experimental patients in one study took any anti-lipid medications for 5 years, a huge leap of faith on their part, while the control groups took the standard medications for CHD patients. Both groups exercised.

After 1 and 5 year intervals, the control patients also received angiograms. Their heart disease had progressed, as expected in all previous studies of patients with CHD taking the standard batch of medicines (anti-hypertensives and anti-lipids).

Other doctors have done similar studies (Caldwell Esselstyn and K. Lance Gould) and confirmed Ornish's incredible findings: heart disease can be reversed.

Currently, Ornish is working on cancer patients, and the preliminary—and I do emphasize the word preliminary—results are positive and need to be followed up with larger studies.


SO WHAT DOES THIS PROVE?

Nothing.

It's entirely possible that in posting on the Huffington Post, and not a peer-reviewed journal, Ornish got sloppy, and didn't review the observational study in depth.

Preston Swirnoff may or may not be a complete fraud, but I don't care if a scientific argument comes from a complete lunatic: if an argument is valid, it's valid.

Regardless of the source.
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