Fun with Oximeter! (home sleep study)

mhurley3 wrote:elg5cats....
I'm with OldLincoln on this one. I've been looking at your avatar for months and I DO NOT SEE the cat. I've heard you describe it before and I DO NOT SEE it. I think I see something like a very young monkey, maybe, but not a cat. I have a cat. I know what a cat looks like. And that's no cat.

You keep looking until you find the cat..............it will help you find the details!!!!! There's a cat in there plain as can be.......keep looking, and let me know when you find my precious baby girl!!!!

elg5cats

mhurley3 wrote:elg5cats....
I'm with OldLincoln on this one. I've been looking at your avatar for months and I DO NOT SEE the cat. I've heard you describe it before and I DO NOT SEE it. I think I see something like a very young monkey, maybe, but not a cat. I have a cat. I know what a cat looks like. And that's no cat.

The cat in that picture is as plain as day. But you have to be a cat lover to see the cat in the first place .

Looks to me like a Siamese....We have a similar-looking Simaese at our zoo, and he has free run of the place. He is a big 'attention sink', and he will let you pet him for 20+ minutes sometimes! If I am first at the zoo in the morning, he frequently runs out to greet me.

timbalionguy wrote:

mhurley3 wrote:elg5cats....
I'm with OldLincoln on this one. I've been looking at your avatar for months and I DO NOT SEE the cat. I've heard you describe it before and I DO NOT SEE it. I think I see something like a very young monkey, maybe, but not a cat. I have a cat. I know what a cat looks like. And that's no cat.

The cat in that picture is as plain as day. But you have to be a cat lover to see the cat in the first place .
Looks to me like a Siamese....We have a similar-looking Simaese at our zoo, and he has free run of the place. He is a big 'attention sink', and he will let you pet him for 20+ minutes sometimes! If I am first at the zoo in the morning, he frequently runs out to greet me.

Ah, the big cat lover finds the cat clearly.............KoKo is a sealpoint Himalayan..and she ruled the home and will always rule my heart!!!!!

elg5cats

elg5cats wrote: Ah, the big cat lover finds the cat clearly.............KoKo is a sealpoint Himalayan..and she ruled the home and will always rule my heart!!!!!

elg5cats

You got it!

I used to like Siamese cats more than any other breed, and could tell all those different ones apart. I'll have to get a picture of 'Zack' for you.

And just as Koko rules in your heart, I have a 900 pound liger named Hobbs who rules in mine!

timbalionguy wrote:

elg5cats wrote: Ah, the big cat lover finds the cat clearly.............KoKo is a sealpoint Himalayan..and she ruled the home and will always rule my heart!!!!! elg5cats

You got it! I used to like Siamese cats more than any other breed, and could tell all those different ones apart. I'll have to get a picture of 'Zack' for you. And just as Koko rules in your heart, I have a 900 pound liger named Hobbs who rules in mine!

I can't imagine a 900 pound liger but would love to. When I see your avatar, I think of a big cat named Cosmos who was put down after a preventable minor incident with a child at an animal santuary in MN I visited regularly a few years ago... My bookshelf sports photos of me with big cat kittens---leopard, lion and tigers feeding and playing with.....highlight of my lifetime feline love was with these cats playing like baby kittens but who would grow into hundreds of pounds. Our Kats are forever in our hearts.....that's were pawprints go!!!!

elg5cats

I can't imagine a 900 pound liger but would love to. When I see your avatar, I think of a big cat named Cosmos who was put down after a preventable minor incident with a child at an animal santuary in MN I visited regularly a few years ago... My bookshelf sports photos of me with big cat kittens---leopard, lion and tigers feeding and playing with.....highlight of my lifetime feline love was with these cats playing like baby kittens but who would grow into hundreds of pounds. Our Kats are forever in our hearts.....that's were pawprints go!!!!

elg5cats[/quote]

You can read Hobbs' story at http://www.lionlamb.us/hobbs.html I think you will enjoy that story!

I know of the incident you speak of. The tiger was named 'Como', and the place was Bearcat Hollow in Racine, MN. Como got out because a hinge failed on his enclosure. Even though the injury was minor, the mother of the child was really an animal rights person, and demanded Como be tested for rabies (which is almost unheard of in big cats, especially captive big cats). Of course to do this, Como had to be killed and his head examined. Attempts were made to spare Como's life going all the way to the governor (Jessie Ventura at the time), and no one would come to his aid. Of course, he tested negative for rabies. MN is famous for this-- a couple years later, a lion saved a boy from a tiger attack. But because the lion bit him in the process, he had to be killed and his head examined. (He was, of course, negative, too.) Both of these incidents made my cry for days. In any case, the girl's mother pressed the case so hard against Bearcat Hollow that the place was eventually closed, and the owners both ended up in prison. There is only one other case I know of where the owner of a big cat facility ended up in prison for wrongdoing, perceived or real.

I doubt the Krafts could have ever recieved total objectivity in all the events that surrounded Bearcat!!! The public who initially cried out at the unfairness to Como (sp?) and the need to save the tiger, easily turned on them. It became a media outcry and scapegoating from my opinion. I visited Bearcat 2-3 times after Como's death 1-2 times before. There was absolute devastation at the loss and everyone knew it was unnecessary....the memorial told the story too!!!! I can't imagine anyone who worked at Bearcat not being devastated by the unnecessary death of Como. I have a picture of me holding and talking to a leopard cub and playing with a Siberian Tiger cub....framed along w/ my kitty pictures. I made copies for my office. The first time I visited Bearcat as I was leaving I walked past a little brown pup......or at least that was my first impression. It was a lion cub. I hung around and was able to pick up the cub and pet it. I'll never forget that moment. My friend's daughter was visiting and she is a cat lover as much as I. I took pictures of her (yikes, could have put the cats at risks) with the cats and sent them to her for Christmas. She is a senior in H.S. this year, been through 3 across country moves and still keeps the photos in her room, still loves cats.

What do you do that allows you contact with the BIG KATS?

elg5cats

elg5cats wrote:Yes, it was Cosmo at Bearcat Hollow. The story locally was the mother was a photographer/volunteer at Bearcat getting pix of her daughter w/ Cosmo when the child suffered a superficial injury. Mother refused to vaccinate child as precaution and Cosmo was PTS and negative for rabies as expected. There were a lot of people who spoke out against PTS Cosmo. Cosmos was doomed because of "not being vaccinated" although there were no standards for vaccinating large cats and he was viewed to be aggressive. I met Nancy and her husband at Bearcat. They seemed very dedicated to the animals. The woman in the situation continued in conflict with the Kraft's. Then the allegations the sanctuary was a front for selling wildlife came when the publicity was negative and damning, the Krafts were charged and jailed, Nancy may still be...she got stiffer consequences although her hubby's charges were more serious best I recall. When I first learned of Bearcat....it was the place to go, provided education for school children and the Kraft's were viewed as saints.....all went tumbling down with the animals caught in the middle. Granted I should never had been allowed to cuddle, pet and fed the babies. One day when Mr. Kraft came 4 wheeling in the main area, he was totally angry I had been allowed direct contact with the tigers. My experiences didn't add up with all the allegations, but I only visited the cats a few times before the war broke out. Small World!!!!
elg5cats

You are correct on everything here (except I think the tiger was named 'Como'.) The charges that put them in jail was indeed for 'trafficking' in wildlife. It was actually an AR 'watchdog' in Florida who blew the whistle on the Krafts. This is a problem with our current laws. The only thing the Krafts were guilty of was bringing more tigers into the world in different places (which is hardly a crime), and lying about where they had been placed. The endangered species laws cause this sort of thing to happen because it is so very difficult to get animals 'through proper channels'. It should be relatively easy to get endangered animals, especially if careful breeding is planned, as breeding is the opposite of extinction.

Here is another example of this problem. Ocelots used to be common as pets here in the US. It was the pet owners who worked out their husbandry, and how to breed them in captivity. Now, after the Endangered Species Act passed in 1974, there are only a few dozen in captivity in the US. And it is extremely hard to breed them across state lines. And this whole process is not doing anything to protect the wild ocelot population, which is not in any real danger anywhere but here in the US.

I carried on a regular correspondence with Nancy for about 9 months before she was tried and sentenced. Very nice woman, and we have a lot in common. I hope we can continue the correspondence when she gets out. There is still a huge Como-sized hole in her heart from all of this.

I'm glad you got to play with the baby big cats. Everyone should be able to do this at least once in their lives. And I bet they would be different people afterwards!

I carried on a regular correspondence with Nancy for about 9 months before she was tried and sentenced. Very nice woman, and we have a lot in common. I hope we can continue the correspondence when she gets out. There is still a huge Como-sized hole in her heart from all of this.I'm glad you got to play with the baby big cats. Everyone should be able to do this at least once in their lives. And I bet they would be different people afterwards!

[/quote]

There was huge community and Bearcat grief with Como's death. I remember clearly being at Bearcat after the PTS, seeing the memorial and talking with people who worked there. The same community that grieved later turned on the Krafts, seemed like few supporters remained as the media and town dogged them time after time. I can't imagine they will ever resolve the hole in their heart. I only saw Como twice before the incident, and will never forget the shock of hearing Como's life was on the line, then the publicity after PTS and visiting the memorial. The Kraft's done a lot of good, and hopefully at some point that will be recognized and recouped.

How are you involved in BIG KAT's lives?

elg5cats

elg5cats wrote:There was huge community and Bearcat grief with Como's death. I remember clearly being at Bearcat after the PTS, seeing the memorial and talking with people who worked there. The same community that grieved later turned on the Krafts, seemed like few supporters remained as the media and town dogged them time after time. I can't imagine they will ever resolve the hole in their heart. I only saw Como twice before the incident, and will never forget the shock of hearing Como's life was on the line, then the publicity after PTS and visiting the memorial. The Kraft's done a lot of good, and hopefully at some point that will be recognized and recouped.

The entire big cat community was horrified by this incident, not just the area around Bearcat Hollow. I was not by any means the only one who cried for days about this tragedy. I still have all the emails that went back and forth about this incident archived somewhere, and someday it will make sad but interesting reading. And, I do hope that the Krafts will be able to somehow recover from all this. But it won't be in Minnesota, which now has a near-total ban on big cat ownership.

elg5cats wrote:How are you involved in BIG KAT's lives?

I have studied African lions for 25+ years, and have been to Tanzania to observe wild lions (wish I could go back!). I now help care for big cats at our local zoo, which is also my next door neighbor. I also work with a number of other big cat owners in Nevada and Kentucky. I am actively involved in the Feline Conservation Federation, which is a group that promotes conservation and good captive husbandry practices for all 38 species of wild cats. http://www.thefcf.org I also work on legislative issues animal rights groups on places like REXANO http://www.rexano.org. If you like cats, you might enjoy either or both of these groups. The FCF's convention is in Oklahoma City next summer, and should be a really good one. I can also report that the FCF's current president is a hoser!

elader wrote:

Curious2 wrote:Let's lighten up. Information is good. I, for one, appreciated the description of how the writer does his home sleep study. I have an oximeter with memory; but the $500 price of Profox put me off. I am very interested in hearing about the lower-cost "watermark" version, and hope I can get one...

more spam - you revived a 4 month old post to add your words of wisdom? What's that about? I sure hope you can get an oximeter too! I really hope so.

Sorry if you're just trying to be rude, but, I actually find 4-month-old, or, for that matter, 4-year-old, information to be fairly current, considering the age of my equipment... My BCI 3303 recording oximeter works quite well for explaining why some nights leave me feeling much worse than other nights, given that my PB 420E reports read much the same, with AHI <5. Also, I set the alarms so that really bad desaturations will wake me up--better than a heart attack or stroke. The problem I ran into with the BCI 3303 was downloading and viewing the oximeter data in a manner that allowed me to compare it time-wise with the printout from my APAP. My solution is to print out charts using a compatible Seiko DPU-414 serial printer--uses rolls of thermal paper--that I also found on Ebay. Not ideal, and was a hassle cobbling together the serial hookup, but it works.

I do appreciate the other poster's information re the Profox "demo" software. Since finding this thread, I have already made one attempt to contact Profox and will try again. If I can't get that non-commercial version of the Profox software, I will eventually spring for a new oximeter, one that comes with software. There are some cheap Chinese models being sold on Ebay now that fit the bill. If anyone has any experiences with them, good or bad, I would be interested in hearing them.