Increased pressure needed for FFM?

Yes it's true. This committed Swift LT user is asking about a FFM!! Since it's a holiday weekend here (USA), I have tried using my back-up UltraMirage FFM for the past 3 nights to try to get it properly adjusted for times when I might have a cold or be hospitalized and cannot use my Swift LT with mouth taping. I have to say that it really is an amazingly comfortable mask, even though I continue to have to tighten the bottom straps to a point that I have mask marks on my face for fully 3 hours after getting up. Ugh. No leaks and I am right at the manufacturer's charted Leak Level for my constant 10 cpap pressure.

Question: (I've probably read this a dozen times or more here, but can't remember, since questions about FFM's have never applied to me). My AHI has been consistently more than double (2.4 - 2.9!!) what it is with my Swift LT (nearly always below 1.0). This is not good!! Do FFM's require an increase in pressure to be equally effective? I am using a size Small Shallow.

In theory, FFM's do not require added pressure. Your reality may be a bit different. Results may esp. may vary from machine to machine due to calibration differences.

The UMFFM is one of the better sealing masks, esp. at higher pressures bc of the the seal design. Have you tried pulling the mask away to allow the seal to be fully inflated and work? Or tried the Rested Gal panty hose tights straps? Just a thought.

plr66 wrote:Yes it's true. This committed Swift LT user is asking about a FFM!!
Question: My AHI has been consistently more than double (2.4 - 2.9!!) what it is with my Swift LT (nearly always below 1.0). This is not good!! Do FFM's require an increase in pressure to be equally effective? I am using a size Small Shallow.

Ah, we are doing a mask experimentation switch. I used a Mirage Quattro FF Mask (XS) for about 5 weeks. My AHI did decrease and I struggled with leak control weeks 1-3. I did notice machine pressure increased reaching the upper limit of my auto range several times. (I stopped due to a desire to experiment not due to dissatisfaction.) I am currently experimenting with the Swift LT and have found the pressure to decrease. It's too soon to note any changes in events yet. The comfort level is the best out of the 4 masks I've tried!!!

elg5cats

GumbyCT wrote:...Your reality may be a bit different.

Ha--Yes. My reality very often is..."different"!!

GumbyCT wrote:Results may esp. may vary from machine to machine due to calibration differences.
The UMFFM is one of the better sealing masks, esp. at higher pressures bc of the the seal design. Have you tried pulling the mask away to allow the seal to be fully inflated and work? Or tried the Rested Gal panty hose tights straps? Just a thought.

I do pull the mask up to re-seat it till it's right. And as I mentioned, I have no problem with leaking, so adding the tights would be 6 of one, half-dozen of the other. The seal was great all night every night. Just sure do wish it didn't leave such a heavy triangular imprint on my face. ---May have to join the monkey avatar group here with my real face in the mornings!
I hadn't thought about calibration of different machines, so maybe next time I'll try a .5 increase in pressure with the UMFFM.

plr66 wrote:Question: .... My AHI has been consistently more than double (2.4 - 2.9!!) what it is with my Swift LT (nearly always below 1.0). .... Do FFM's require an increase in pressure to be equally effective?

You might wish to review my extended post "AutoPAP, Activa, UMFF and Mouth Taping" at
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37954. I have compared effecacy, pressure and other parameters for the Mirage Activa and the UMFF masks, using a ResMed AutoPAP at various settings.

A simple summary relevant to your question would be: (1) in AutoPAP mode, the machine tended to run at higher pressures with the UMFF than it did with the Activa, and still provided somewhat inferior efficacy numbers with the UMFF, and (2) at a fixed pressure, efficacy numbers were somewhat inferior for the UMFF than they were for the Activa.

Theoretically, this should not be so. I can offer no explanation as to why the data is as it is.

But I have not answered your question - I have not tested and do not know whether (or how much) increased fixed pressure (or higher AutoPAP pressures) with the UMFF might produce efficacy parameters equivalent to that produced by the Activa at lower pressures.

Nonetheless, for me, the mask certainly made a difference with respect to pressure and efficacy. Velbor

plr66 wrote:Yes it's true. This committed Swift LT user is asking about a FFM!! Since it's a holiday weekend here (USA), I have tried using my back-up UltraMirage FFM for the past 3 nights to try to get it properly adjusted for times when I might have a cold or be hospitalized and cannot use my Swift LT with mouth taping. I have to say that it really is an amazingly comfortable mask, even though I continue to have to tighten the bottom straps to a point that I have mask marks on my face for fully 3 hours after getting up. Ugh. No leaks and I am right at the manufacturer's charted Leak Level for my constant 10 cpap pressure.

Question: (I've probably read this a dozen times or more here, but can't remember, since questions about FFM's have never applied to me). My AHI has been consistently more than double (2.4 - 2.9!!) what it is with my Swift LT (nearly always below 1.0). This is not good!! Do FFM's require an increase in pressure to be equally effective? I am using a size Small Shallow.

I have consistently found I needed to add 1 to 2 CMs of extra pressure when swapping from nasal pillows to a F/F mask.

The F/F mask has a big deadspace with lots of venting compared to a pillows mask (which has a tiny deadspace & tiny vent hole) & that creates an air buffer - adding 1 to 2 CMs compensates & feels about the same in terms of air delivery.

Good luck

DSM

Slinky pointed this out to me ...

POSITIVE AIRWAY PRESSURE AND OXYGEN THERAPY IN THE SLEEP LABORATORY
by James T. Hundley, BS, RPSGT

"Some would argue for the use of full face masks in patients with chronic nasal congestion. The author's experience with full face masks has produced mixed results. The author has alternated various brands of full face masks with nasal interfaces in the same patients and found that full facemasks frequently require several more centimeters of pressure to obtain the same resolution of airway resistance. This would seem to correlate with a study by Gold and Schwartz, in which they observed a "4 cm h20 increase in Pcrit" (increased critical pressure of the collapsible pharyngeal segment) in normal subjects sleeping with mouth open versus mouth closed."


Cheers

DSM

Thanks to every one of you. This has been very helpful to me, and you've saved me an hour of agonizing searching to find those answers here. I have almost no nasal congestion, and haven't had a cold in 2-3 yrs (knock on wood!). But I want to be prepared. Will keep experimenting with the back-up FFM on weekends I don't have to go scare anybody with my face during the morning hours.

In my experience with the Simplicity (small nasal mask) vs. Quattro (full face mask), yes the Quattro needs a couple more pressure points than the Simplicity and if I don't turn it up when using the Quattro, my AHI will more than double. I can also feel the difference in my throat. With Simplicity it really feels like it's being blown right open, with Quattro, on the same exact pressure, not so much.

plr66 wrote:Yes it's true. This committed Swift LT user is asking about a FFM!! Since it's a holiday weekend here (USA), I have tried using my back-up UltraMirage FFM for the past 3 nights to try to get it properly adjusted for times when I might have a cold or be hospitalized and cannot use my Swift LT with mouth taping. I have to say that it really is an amazingly comfortable mask, even though I continue to have to tighten the bottom straps to a point that I have mask marks on my face for fully 3 hours after getting up. Ugh. No leaks and I am right at the manufacturer's charted Leak Level for my constant 10 cpap pressure.

Question: (I've probably read this a dozen times or more here, but can't remember, since questions about FFM's have never applied to me). My AHI has been consistently more than double (2.4 - 2.9!!) what it is with my Swift LT (nearly always below 1.0). This is not good!! Do FFM's require an increase in pressure to be equally effective? I am using a size Small Shallow.