Can't stay asleep with APAP

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
fgnkknr
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Can't stay asleep with APAP

Post by fgnkknr » Sat Sep 14, 2024 3:06 am

Hi everyone,

I have been using the ResMed AirSense AutoSet 10 for a month, but my sleep is still fragmented. I usually wake up after 3-4 hours and find it hard to remain asleep even if I do manage to fall back to sleep.

It feels as if I am only half asleep after the first awakening and I don't know what is causing this. I will post 3 nights recorded with OSCAR below, in hopes that someone can help me out or suggest some adjustments that I could make in order to improve my situation.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks!
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Dog Slobber
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Re: Can't stay asleep with APAP

Post by Dog Slobber » Sat Sep 14, 2024 9:34 am

Although your Apneas are well treated, your minimum pressure is way too low, and your maximum pressure *might* be too low as well.

The huge up and saw tooth movements suggest too low pressure. If you take a look at timing of the pressure increases and compare them to your Flow Limitations and Tidal Volumes, you will see a pattern that resembles our REM sleep patterns. 30 minutes of increased volume every 90 minutes or so. Looking at Respiration Rate will probably also show similar volatility within the expected REM pattern.


What I suspect is; the very low minimum pressure is fine for your non-REM sleep, but when REM comes along, you lose a lot more patency, the machine has a long way to catchup increasing pressure to handle the increased need, and that's why your FLs increase.

Did your sleep study note a lot more events during REM?

The timing of your awakenings also follow REM patterns. This is actually quite normal and many experience awakenings at the end of of during REM, as this is when our brain activities reach almost normal levels and we are simply not in as deep a sleep.

Increasing your minimum pressure 7, 8 will help flatten the trace, and potentially won't need to go as high, but still might be too low.

By reducing the FLs, that might get you through the REM cycle without awakening.

Also contributing could be, simply not being accustomed to CPAP, and the higher pressure during REM, and that sometimes takes time.
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fgnkknr
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Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2024 2:50 am

Re: Can't stay asleep with APAP

Post by fgnkknr » Sat Sep 14, 2024 11:19 am

Thank you for taking the time to respond!

My sleep study didn't specify anything about an increase in events during REM sleep,
but I will try to increase my min pressure and see if that works.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Can't stay asleep with APAP

Post by ChicagoGranny » Sat Sep 14, 2024 11:41 am

fgnkknr wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2024 11:19 am
My sleep study didn't specify anything about an increase in events during REM sleep,
Make sure to get a copy of the study for your permanent records. If it was an in-lab study, it should show sleep stages and events per each stage.
"It's not the number of breaths we take, it's the number of moments that take our breath away."

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fgnkknr
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Re: Can't stay asleep with APAP

Post by fgnkknr » Sun Sep 15, 2024 1:07 am

I increased the min pressure to 7, and also raised the EPR to 3 and I managed to get 6 hours of sleep! Thank you for the suggestions!
I would also like to ask if I need to make any other changes, since I am not sure how to interpret the OSCAR data. Thanks again!
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zonker
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Re: Can't stay asleep with APAP

Post by zonker » Sun Sep 15, 2024 12:05 pm

fgnkknr wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2024 1:07 am

I would also like to ask if I need to make any other changes, since I am not sure how to interpret the OSCAR data. Thanks again!
you should interpret the data this way-

HOLY COW, that's a good looking chart!

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: Can't stay asleep with APAP

Post by ChicagoGranny » Mon Sep 16, 2024 12:13 pm

zonker wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2024 12:05 pm
HOLY COW, that's a good looking chart!
fgnkknr wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2024 1:07 am
I would also like to ask if I need to make any other changes,
Yes, bring out the champagne.
"It's not the number of breaths we take, it's the number of moments that take our breath away."

Cuando cuentes cuentos, cuenta cuántas cuentos cuentas.

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Dog Slobber
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Re: Can't stay asleep with APAP

Post by Dog Slobber » Mon Sep 16, 2024 1:48 pm

fgnkknr wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2024 1:07 am
I increased the min pressure to 7, and also raised the EPR to 3 and I managed to get 6 hours of sleep! Thank you for the suggestions!
I would also like to ask if I need to make any other changes, since I am not sure how to interpret the OSCAR data. Thanks again!
From an AHI perspective, your charts are looking great.

And, as pointed out in my first post it looks like during REM your FLs and pressure increases. This can still cause sleep disruptions in the form of flow limitations and big pressure swings. jimmytv.84 these REM periods, things are great.

This is what I would do:
  • Hang at a minimum of 7cm for a week, this is just so we can get some good statistical significant data, to compare to.
  • Then move up to a minimum of 7.6, 7.8, 8 (what ever your comfortable with). What we're interested in is, cleaning up those FLs during REM and improving awakenings during REM.
What I'm hoping is, with the machine having less distance to go to address your REM, it will do a better job, while in REM.
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fgnkknr
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Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2024 2:50 am

Re: Can't stay asleep with APAP

Post by fgnkknr » Tue Sep 17, 2024 9:57 am

Thank you all for your advice, it really has helped a lot!
I will stay on these settings for a week and see how I'm feeling, and maybe I'll continue to raise the min Pressure if needed.