Bipap injury?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
wetwilly
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2023 12:25 pm

Bipap injury?

Post by wetwilly » Tue May 23, 2023 2:58 pm

I hear people talking about possible injury if you misuse Bipap settings. What type of injuries could occur?

_________________
MachineMaskHumidifier
Additional Comments: 1.2.0.3418

User avatar
Miss Emerita
Posts: 3469
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:07 pm

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by Miss Emerita » Tue May 23, 2023 3:20 pm

What kinds of injuries have you heard about, and where did you hear about them?
Oscar software is available at https://www.sleepfiles.com/OSCAR/

Janknitz
Posts: 8427
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:05 pm
Location: Northern California

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by Janknitz » Tue May 23, 2023 5:45 pm

You could break your toe if you drop it on your toe.

To be more serious, BIPAP can cause a collapsed lung in someone with "acute inflammatory pulmonary processes and the inability to clear secretions" It's very rare. The most common injury from CPAP/BIPAP is a pressure sore from the mask being too tight. If you are in a delicate state of lung health or in severe heart failure, talk to your doctor about the risks vs. the benefits. Compare that to the risks of failure to breathe many times an hour.
What you need to know before you meet your DME http://tinyurl.com/2arffqx
Taming the Mirage Quattro http://tinyurl.com/2ft3lh8
Swift FX Fitting Guide http://tinyurl.com/22ur9ts
Don't Pay that Upcharge! http://tinyurl.com/2ck48rm

wetwilly
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2023 12:25 pm

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by wetwilly » Tue May 23, 2023 6:57 pm

Miss Emerita wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 3:20 pm
What kinds of injuries have you heard about, and where did you hear about them?
Sleep technicians, CPAP websites, and some users here all warn against modifying your settings, or against using BIPaP when prescribed a CPAP. But they never specify what injuries could occur.

My breathing is full of central apenas and hypopneas. So I acquired a BIPAP to kind of use as a respirator. I know it doesn’t work like that, since it doesn’t initiate a breath, but it makes it easier. But I don’t want to get myself dependent on it.

_________________
MachineMaskHumidifier
Additional Comments: 1.2.0.3418

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 34433
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by chunkyfrog » Tue May 23, 2023 7:44 pm

Unless your DOCTOR has diagnosed you with a RARE condition that
counterindicates cpap or bilevel therapy, you probably are safe.
(((Unless your doctor is unusually incompetent.)))
Several forum members have used bilevel machines, with no harm.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her

User avatar
zonker
Posts: 11048
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:36 pm

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by zonker » Tue May 23, 2023 9:19 pm

chunkyfrog wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 7:44 pm

Several forum members have used bilevel machines, with no harm.
(raises hand)

have been using a bilevel machine for over 1 and 1/2 years with no harm.
people say i'm self absorbed.
but that's enough about them.
Oscar-Win
https://www.apneaboard.com/OSCAR/OSCAR-1.5.1-Win64.exe
Oscar-Mac
https://www.apneaboard.com/OSCAR/OSCAR-1.5.1.dmg

User avatar
chunkyfrog
Posts: 34433
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Nebraska--I am sworn to keep the secret of this paradise.

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by chunkyfrog » Tue May 23, 2023 10:47 pm

I wonder where wetwilly heard that conversation.
I would stay away from those people.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Airsense 10 Autoset for Her

User avatar
ozij
Posts: 10189
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:52 pm

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by ozij » Tue May 23, 2023 11:16 pm

wetwilly wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 6:57 pm
Miss Emerita wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 3:20 pm
What kinds of injuries have you heard about, and where did you hear about them?
Sleep technicians, CPAP websites, and some users here all warn against modifying your settings, or against using BIPaP when prescribed a CPAP. But they never specify what injuries could occur.
my emphasis
You could ask those users on this forum for more specific information.

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Machine: Resmed AirSense10 for Her with Climateline heated hose ; alternating masks.
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Good advice is compromised by missing data
Forum member Dog Slobber Nov. 2023

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by palerider » Wed May 24, 2023 12:54 am

wetwilly wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 6:57 pm
Miss Emerita wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 3:20 pm
What kinds of injuries have you heard about, and where did you hear about them?
Sleep technicians, CPAP websites, and some users here all warn against modifying your settings, or against using BIPaP when prescribed a CPAP. But they never specify what injuries could occur.
That's because there aren't any.
wetwilly wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 6:57 pm
My breathing is full of central apenas and hypopneas. So I acquired a BIPAP to kind of use as a respirator. I know it doesn’t work like that, since it doesn’t initiate a breath, but it makes it easier. But I don’t want to get myself dependent on it.
increasing ventilation with a bilevel machine (I HOPE you didn't get a "bipap" since they've *ALL* been recalled, because only Philips makes anything that's called "bipap") will likely *increase* central apneas.

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by palerider » Wed May 24, 2023 12:56 am

chunkyfrog wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 10:47 pm
I wonder where wetwilly heard that conversation.
I would stay away from those people.
From the same liars that say it's "illegal" to change your own settings.

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

User avatar
ChicagoGranny
Posts: 14523
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:43 pm
Location: USA

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by ChicagoGranny » Wed May 24, 2023 5:52 am

wetwilly wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 6:57 pm
But I don’t want to get myself dependent on it.
Are you dependent on breathing?

User avatar
Miss Emerita
Posts: 3469
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:07 pm

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by Miss Emerita » Wed May 24, 2023 11:37 am

wetwilly wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 6:57 pm
Miss Emerita wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 3:20 pm
What kinds of injuries have you heard about, and where did you hear about them?
Sleep technicians, CPAP websites, and some users here all warn against modifying your settings, or against using BIPaP when prescribed a CPAP. But they never specify what injuries could occur.

My breathing is full of central apenas and hypopneas. So I acquired a BIPAP to kind of use as a respirator. I know it doesn’t work like that, since it doesn’t initiate a breath, but it makes it easier. But I don’t want to get myself dependent on it.
I think those warnings are meant to make sure people don't make their apnea worse by changing their settings without knowing what they're doing. I don't think they are warnings connected with possible injuries.

Very occasionally someone with diagnosed central apnea will be helped by using a bilevel machine. That's why patients are generally required to try a bilevel machine before moving on to a (much more expensive) ASV machine (adaptive servo-ventilation).

You say your Phillips Respironics bilevel machine "makes it easier." Could you explain what it makes easier?

It would be helpful if you'd stay in one thread so people can see the background to your questions. And could you post a recent daily chart so we can see what's currently going on?

Was your bilevel machine reconditioned? I ask because, as palerider has pointed out, the Phillips Respironics bilevel machines have been recalled.
Oscar software is available at https://www.sleepfiles.com/OSCAR/

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by palerider » Wed May 24, 2023 1:04 pm

wetwilly wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 2:58 pm
I hear people talking about possible injury if you misuse Bipap settings. What type of injuries could occur?
There really are no injuries that you can get from a machine that can't even blow up a balloon.

Now, if you were stupid and you set the machine to ridiculous amounts of pressure support, you'd hyperventilate yourself, and have the side effects of that, and it'd be uncomfortable, (I've done it just to experiment).

But, yes, as someone else stated, the only way you can injure yourself with a bilevel machine (not 'bipap') is to drop it on your foot. modern ones probably wouldn't hurt too bad, but some of the old ones... ouch.

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

User avatar
ozij
Posts: 10189
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:52 pm

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by ozij » Wed May 24, 2023 8:46 pm

The following statements are meant for people who are concerned by the header of this post.
They are not meant for the OP.

Some people don't distinguish between invasive ventilation machines and positive air pressure machines. They confuse them.
  • Invasive ventilation machines can cause injury to your lungs if they're set up incorrectly.
  • People who are put on invasive ventilation machines may have to weaned off them.
  • Continuous positive air pressure machine can harm your health if they are set up or used incorrectly - because they may exacerbate your sleep disordered breathing and because using them with the wrong settings may keep you from getting the therapy you really need.
  • If I misdiagnose a muscular weakness in my leg as a "broken leg" and put a cast on my leg because that's what I think I have, I only cause further weakness to that weak muscle. Self misdiagnosis is a kind of malpractice - beware of it.
  • Injury and harm are not the same thing.
  • People who use positive air pressure machines do not have to be weaned off them.
  • People who use positive air pressure machines need them the way people who need hearing aids or glasses need them.

    I am short sighted. I take off my glasses and put on my CPAP mask at night. I take off my mask and put on my glasses in the morning.
    I will never be "weaned off" either my glasses

_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Machine: Resmed AirSense10 for Her with Climateline heated hose ; alternating masks.
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Good advice is compromised by missing data
Forum member Dog Slobber Nov. 2023

User avatar
palerider
Posts: 32300
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:43 pm
Location: Dallas(ish).

Re: Bipap injury?

Post by palerider » Wed May 24, 2023 10:28 pm

ozij wrote:
Wed May 24, 2023 8:46 pm
The following statements are meant for people who are concerned by the header of this post.
They are not meant for the OP.

Some people don't distinguish between invasive ventilation machines and positive air pressure machines. They confuse them.
  • Invasive ventilation machines can cause injury to your lungs if they're set up incorrectly.
  • People who are put on invasive ventilation machines may have to weaned off them.
  • Continuous positive air pressure machine can harm your health if they are set up or used incorrectly - because they may exacerbate your sleep disordered breathing and because using them with the wrong settings may keep you from getting the therapy you really need.
  • If I misdiagnose a muscular weakness in my leg as a "broken leg" and put a cast on my leg because that's what I think I have, I only cause further weakness to that weak muscle. Self misdiagnosis is a kind of malpractice - beware of it.
  • Injury and harm are not the same thing.
  • People who use positive air pressure machines do not have to be weaned off them.
  • People who use positive air pressure machines need them the way people who need hearing aids or glasses need them.

    I am short sighted. I take off my glasses and put on my CPAP mask at night. I take off my mask and put on my glasses in the morning.
    I will never be "weaned off" either my glasses
Amen!

_________________
Mask: Bleep DreamPort CPAP Mask Solution
Additional Comments: S9 VPAP Auto
Get OSCAR

Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, clownbell, gearchange, lynninnj, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They often post misleading, timewasting stuff.