Air bubbles torturing me

Hello,

New user here! I bought a BMC Auto CPAP G2S A20 machine about 2 weeks ago and I'm trying to get adjusted to sleeping with a hose coming into my nose blowing air. I use a nose pillow, which is quite bearable. The only thing I am not able to control is the AIR BUBBLES. I keep getting awaken around 3am and it's very hard to fall back asleep. I read about using tape to keep my mouth closed, but as I suspected it didn't help, since the air is coming from inside. Theair accumulated in my mouth and I probably looked like a balloon before the tape gave up.

I wondered if I was getting too much air blown into my nose, more than I needed, so the excess was finding its way out through my mouth. My P95 was reading 8.5, so I lowered the maxAPAP to 8.0 cmH2O -I figured it would give me less pressure and might help, but it really hasn't.

At this point, I am wondering if I should just try taping without using the machine. I am getting quite desperate for an apnea/bubble-free night. Anyone has found a solution to the air bubbles?

Other than that, I love my machine. It's quiet, compact, gives me a lot of basic information and was really affordable in Asia.

It sounds like you are dealing with air getting into your mouth from the back of your throat.

The most likely cause is that your tongue is moving out of position. The normal resting position of the tongue is with the tip of the tongue touching the back of the top front teeth at the gum line and the hump of the tongue against the top of the mouth. This position effectively blocks the oral cavity off from the nasal cavity. When the tongue moves down, that allows air to pass from the nasal cavity into the oral cavity. And with the pressure from the CPAP, it's easier for air to push its way into the mouth when the tongue slips out of position.

Taping your mouth is not likely to fix the problem because the problem is not necessarily caused by opening your mouth. Taping may, in fact, cause you to start swallowing the air that is trapped in your mouth, and then you wind up with a belly full of air, which can be quite painful.

The only fix I can think of is to work on training the tongue to stay where it should stay when you are not talking and not eating. So during the daytime try to build a conscious awareness of where your tongue is sitting. If you can train it to stay put during the day, there's a good chance it might stay put during the night while you are asleep with the CPAP on.

My P95 was reading 8.5, so I lowered the maxAPAP to 8.0 cmH2O -I figured it would give me less pressure and might help, but it really hasn't.

Less pressure can marginally help this problem, but there's always the trade off with whether less pressure comes with more events.

What was your median pressure reading? (You need Oscar to see this.) And what is your min pressure setting?

ThaiAirways wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:34 pm

Theair accumulated in my mouth and I probably looked like a balloon before the tape gave up.

Many call this chipmunk cheeks. It's a common problem.

Yes, some people solve this problem by making a habit of holding the tongue on the roof of the mouth. Others have to use full face masks and let the air leak from the mouth out into the mask.

Unfortunately, BMC machines are not supported by OSCAR or SleepHQ.

First of all, thanks so much for taking the time to reply so quickly. It's much appreciated.

If training the tongue works, I will definitely work on that -doing it as I type.

Totally right about swallowing air. I've never had so much aerophagia before.

I don't have Oscar, but can tell you that I set my min APAP at 6.0 (if that's what you're asking, robysue1.) It came set at 4.5 from factory, but I felt I wasn't getting enough air when I started the machine, so I raised it.

Last night, I decided to see if taping alone would make a difference. After waking up with air bubbles around 3am, I got off the machine, taped my mouth and went back to sleep. I slept until 7am (total of ~7.5 hrs of sleep) but I woke up with a light headache, which for me is a sign that I did have apneas when off the machine, although I can't confirm it since I was "freestyling." This definitely confirmed that I have to get used to the machine, the bubbles and everything that comes with it.

ChicagoGranny, I'd like to try anything I can before using a full mask. I can't imagine being able to fall asleep with my face covered like that. And also, I wonder what difference it would make, since the air would still be going through my mouth, which is what wakes me up and prevents me from falling asleep again -but maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, thanks so much for your advice. I will train my tongue and let you know how it goes. THANKS!!

I forgot to mention in case it matters, I am a male, 62, no medical issues, gym 6 days/week.

ThaiAirways wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:12 pm

ChicagoGranny, I'd like to try anything I can before using a full mask. I can't imagine being able to fall asleep with my face covered like that. And also, I wonder what difference it would make, since the air would still be going through my mouth, which is what wakes me up and prevents me from falling asleep again -but maybe I'm wrong.

The air circling inside the FFM (if the FFM isn't leaking) is very different from the air escaping through your mouth when you're using a nasal or a pillows mask.
For one, the machine doesn't have to work so hard a maintaining the needed pressure to keep your airway open ("patent" is the term). Imagine you were trying to keep a baloon blown up and it had a pinprick sized hole. Then imagine you were trying to keep a balloon firmly blown up when it had a larger hole - dime sized? The latter would have far more air circling in the system. It's the air pouring out of your mouth into the room that is waking you up. When your mouth is open in a full face mask, the pressure is maintained effortlessly, there's no "wind" inside that space.

There are FFM's that don't cover your full face, but do cradle your nose, and don't let air escape from your mouth.

Taping without CPAP therapy is useless: it may even be harmful, since it keeps you from opening your mouth to breathe should you need it.

Taping with and nasal mask or a pillows mask helps many to get good therapy: i.e. good breathing and good sleep.

ThaiAirways wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:12 pm

I'd like to try anything I can before using a full mask. I can't imagine being able to fall asleep with my face covered like that.

You are probably thinking of something like this ---> https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... k-headgear That's a traditional style. It is heavy, has a large footprint, fits over the sensitive nose bridge, tends to leak into the eyes, and has heavy head straps.

Here is a newer style, like Ozij mentions, with a small footprint, is lightweight, doesn't go over the nose, has no tendency to leak into the eyes, and has lightweight head straps. It has a field of vision that allows reading. ----> https://www.resmed.co.uk/sleep-blog-How ... med-uk.jpg

A good place to view masks is cpap.com. There are photos, specifications, reviews and rankings.

ozij wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:45 pm

Taping without CPAP therapy is useless: it may even be harmful, since it keeps you from opening your mouth to breathe should you need it.

Yeah, it's a bit worrisome.

ThaiAirways wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:12 pm

Last night, I decided to see if taping alone would make a difference. After waking up with air bubbles around 3am, I got off the machine, taped my mouth and went back to sleep. I slept until 7am (total of ~7.5 hrs of sleep) but I woke up with a light headache, which for me is a sign that I did have apneas when off the machine, although I can't confirm it since I was "freestyling." This definitely confirmed that I have to get used to the machine, the bubbles and everything that comes with it.

So I want to make sure I understand what you are saying:

Before 3:00 AM, you were using the machine without taping your mouth and you got air bubbles.

After 3:00 AM, you taped your mouth, but didn't use the machine. And you woke up at 7 AM with a slight headache, which you know is a sign of apnea filled sleep.

There's no point in taping your mouth if you aren't using your machine. And between 3:00 AM and 7:00 AM, your OSA was untreated. So we'd expect you to have events, and probably a lot of them. As in, you probably had something pretty close to the number of events that you were having every night between 3:00 AM and 7:00 AM before your apnea was diagnosed and you started therapy.

And yes, the fact that you got your standard apnea headache is confirmation that you need to learn to sleep well with the machine.

As for the bubbles? There are ways of minimize those problems. Does your machine give you any real data to work with? Is there software that's available for your machine?

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It's the air pouring out of your mouth into the room that is waking you up. When your mouth is open in a full face mask, the pressure is maintained effortlessly, there's no "wind" inside that space.
[/quote]

Wow, I finally understand! That's awesome, thank you. Yes, it's definitely that air gishing out of my mouth that wakes me upm and I understand the need for me to get the kind of mask you guys recommend. Actually, even the manufacturer was recommending me to try that. Ordering one right away!

Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge, it's been very helpful for me to get a clear picture of what's going on inside my head!

It looks like I also need to figure out how to reply to a quote (joke, please don't mind that haha)

Thanks again Robysue1, ChicagoGranny and Ozij for taking the time to post your previous advice.

ThaiAirways wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:36 am

how to reply to a quote

1. Click Post Reply near the bottom of the screen.
2. Highlight the part of the post you are replying to.
3. Place the cursor where you want the quoted part to appear.
4. Click the quotation marks in the upper right-hand corner of the post you are replying to.
5. Finish your reply.
6. Click Submit