Sleep hours

Hi, for years I always slept 8 hrs +, I love to sleep but past year, I haven't slept more then 6 hrs, occasional 8 hrs +

I'm 59, was wondering if age is the cause, due to sedentary lifestyle, after retirement.

What's interesting is, some nights I sleep 6 hrs, I'm fully active next day, and yet some nights I sleep 6 hrs, I'd rather stay in bed.

Been working with pcp, mental health and sleep clinic, I always wake up 6 hrs or less, even nights I tried numerous different sleep aids, they don't keep me asleep. Actually, sleep aids I sleep worse, possible reason I don't desire to get out of bed. According to Myair and Fitbit, I have no sleep complications. Very baffling.

Sleep clinic may do another sleep study after home oximetry test next week. I shared I don't have any breathing issues, o2 sat always 96-100%, c02 normal May 2022 labs.

Thought reason was, I was to hot. I have portable AC in room. Room temp 68 degrees, upon waking 72 degrees. Tx heat Cool gel pillow works great, but not for entire body. I tried different bedding, etc... I sleep with just a sheet.

Anyone else have difficulty sleeping 7-8 hrs plus ? with good pap therapy data.

Architect wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:50 pm

Anyone else have difficulty sleeping 7-8 hrs plus ?

Yeah....me.
7 hours is a good night for me. 8 hours is a red letter day mark it on your calendar day for me.
Most of the time I am doing good to get 6 1/2 hours. If I get less than 6 hours I am a slow walking zombie and a real bitch here so when you see me being bitchy here it's a good guess that the night before was a short night.

In my case I know the reason....mental stress at times is a factor because I have a very aging mother who is failing right in front of my eyes and there's a physical reason which encompasses some pain issues that aren't so easy to deal with.
Even when we know the reason it isn't always so easy to fix.

Architect wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:50 pm

Actually, sleep aids I sleep worse, possible reason I don't desire to get out of bed.

Common complaint....they do a decent enough job helping us fall asleep but they totally suck at helping us stay asleep and the result in the morning is what you experience or what I call the "morning hangover".

Two kinds of insomnia...sleep onset insomnia where we have trouble falling asleep and sleep maintenance insomnia where we have trouble staying asleep (wake often, wake too early and have trouble going back to sleep).
Sometimes I have had both kinds in one night...usually the sleep onset part is from stress from my mom and then the maintenance problem can often be a combination of both since I will often wake and THEN starting worrying about my mom again.

There is a new kind of sleep aid that is RX and for supposedly targeting the sleep maintenance thing more than the sleep onset thing. It's called Belsomra. Supposedly not nearly as much "morning hangover" effect either.
You might have a chat with your doctor about it if it sounds interesting. Horribly expensive if you don't have a decent co pay for a Level 3 Tier drug. So that might be a deal breaker for you. I pay $42 for 30 pills. I might take 2 a week...maybe 3...depending on what I have been up to.

It's supposed to help you stay asleep longer and if you read deep into the studies and literature about it the "sleep longer" part on average is around 45 minutes to maybe 1 hour. Doesn't sound like a lot but sometimes that extra 45 minutes or so is critical to feeling decent the next day. Especially when it means 6 1/2 to 7 hours vs 5 1/2 to 6 hours.
I have some pain issues affecting things as well and I do think that it helps me sleep a little sounder as well so when I take it I don't wake quite so many times tossing and turning from discomfort.
My doctor and I decided to try it because sometimes I just needed some help even after taking a pain pill and the other kinds of sleep aids you aren't supposed to take in combination with an opiate. This one is much safer.
And when I wake up I don't seem to have any morning hangover issues to speak of.

As with any medication though....huge YMMV sticker but I thought I would mention it in case you hadn't heard about it.

If you don't have a thyroid then I assume you take some sort of thyroid med....might look into it as possible source of sleeping troubles. For some people thyroid meds do end up causing sleep problems.
Lots of meds come with that side effect.

Hi Pugsy, thanks so much for info, very helpful. You explained my experience perfectly. Sorry to read though, your having similar sleep difficulty. I certainly can relate to all you share, my main concern is sleep deprivation. I only feel sleep deprived on day's, I sleep 5 hrs or less. Same with me, I occassionally have mental stress. I have an aging mother, I take care of full time.

I do get alot of viral/bacterial infection = body aches, every other month. I'm truly baffled, cause all my blood labs are in normal range, cept wbc. Mine is always elevated for 20 years. Oncologist shared some are born this way. As for hormone labs - always normal range. Pcp tested me from head to toes.

I never have trouble falling asleep, it's staying asleep that truly baffles me. On rare occassions I can sleep 8 hrs, wake up feeling fabulous. My pcp tried many sleep aids, I have a pharmacy in my bathroom I only take em for a few day's, add to sleep aid collection. He wanted to try Trazadone, but I declined. I will certainly ask him about Belsomra, he's a fantastic pcp, will try anything to keep me healthy.

My psychologist suspects sleep hygiene. Hopefully, hospital can figure out, my sleep difficulty.

Fitbit shows, I wake up around same time every night, then drift back off to sleep, before or after deep sleep. Most times, I don't remember waking up at all, till it's time to wake up. I sort of open my eyes, turn, go right back to sleep.

I need to set up Oscar. I'm wondering, if my sleep clinic uses Oscar type software or Myair to retrieved sleep data for patients.

Thanks so much friend.

I'm another one that wakes up after about 5 or, more often, 6 hours of sleep. It's just a little better than a coin flip if I can get back to sleep after that. I always feel better during the day if I've gotten 7 or more hours of sleep, hardly ever get 8 hours. And if I've had a good night's sleep, chances are the next night will be a bit shorter. Just the way that it is, been like this since I've been on CPAP. It's usually easier for me to get back to sleep after those 6 hours if I take off my CPAP mask. Which I do sometimes if it feels like the difference between getting more sleep or not. My target amount of sleep these days is about 7 hours (or more).

When I was a teenager or in college I could sleep for 12 hours or so *smile*. But then I needed that much sleep back then. Now I just go with what I can get and call it a night. My wife does essentially split sleep, often gets 4 or 5 hours of sleep at night, and then takes a long nap during the day. I guess we all find what works for us, hopefully.

Architect wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:50 pm

What's interesting is, some nights I sleep 6 hrs, I'm fully active next day...

Sleep in comprised of sleep cycles ~90 minutes long. A natural awakening will occur at the end of a completed sleep cycle.

The Company Line is that one needs 7.8 hours of sleep per night. They got this by looking at a bunch of normal sleepers and did a gazinta.

Not every normal sleeper has 5 cycles. Some fewer, some more. But in normal architecture you should be looking a sleep time that is a multiple of 90 minutes of sleep.

Additionally, the really good sleep (SWS) is usually entirely within the first sleep cycle.

There's nothing wrong with being a "short sleeper" (AAMOF, I am one) sleeping "only" 6 hours per night. If your plan is "I'm going to get 7.8 hours of sleep per night even if I have to empty the medicine cabinet" that might not be the right approach.

If you wake up naturally after 6 hours and are fully functional IIWY I'd be happy. On on the days when you are not fully functional consider one of the zillion other reasons one is tired.

And BTW total sleep time does drop as one ages.

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:32 am

And BTW total sleep time does drop as one ages.

Crap...so does everything else. Boobs, butt, belly all gone south.

Side note and I apologize for going Off Topic a bit. The recent addition of the SCS thing to help me manage the pain that messes with my sleep does seem have helped a bit. I don't want people to think that I sometimes take a sleep aid just for the sleep thing...it's still an effort to help me reduce the primary cause of my not so great sleep which is the pain caused wake ups. So I am still experimenting with figuring out what I need to reduce the pain itself and work at it from that angle and I have been told it will take up to a year from the procedure to get full benefit and then see how things go.

I still firmly believe that to fix a problem we first have to identify the cause of the problem if at all possible.
In my case I know the cause and even then the fixing isn't so easy....but I continue to try.
My ultimate goal is minimal drugs all the way around but I am not going to cut off my nose to spite my face.
It's a work in progress for sure.

RogerSC wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:36 am

I'm another one that wakes up after about 5 or, more often, 6 hours of sleep. It's just a little better than a coin flip if I can get back to sleep after that. I always feel better during the day if I've gotten 7 or more hours of sleep, hardly ever get 8 hours. And if I've had a good night's sleep, chances are the next night will be a bit shorter. Just the way that it is, been like this since I've been on CPAP. It's usually easier for me to get back to sleep after those 6 hours if I take off my CPAP mask. Which I do sometimes if it feels like the difference between getting more sleep or not. My target amount of sleep these days is about 7 hours (or more).

When I was a teenager or in college I could sleep for 12 hours or so *smile*. But then I needed that much sleep back then. Now I just go with what I can get and call it a night. My wife does essentially split sleep, often gets 4 or 5 hours of sleep at night, and then takes a long nap during the day. I guess we all find what works for us, hopefully.

Sorry to read you/wife experience the same, thanks for sharing. I sleep well without pap therapy, occassional afternoon nap time, afterwards feel refreshed on the go, although was told not to take naps. I've been on pap thearpy 13 years, with minimal issues, lack of sleep developed last year. I always slept 8 hrs + till last year. Truly a mystery.

I agree with Pugsy, many medical conditions can cause insomnia, sleep disturbances.

Example, when I take Naproxen for inflammation, I sleep restful, but was told not to take often due to possible kidney damage. When I take antibiotics for infections, I sleep wonderful.

Why does Naproxen/antibiotics work, sleep aids do not? Sleep aids do not address the underlying cause of sleep disturbances. I know for a fact, thyroid hormone imablance can cause insomnia/sleep difficulty. I've learned recently sinsus disorder can cause sleep complications/fatigue, diabetes, list goes on.

As I've matured in age, although labs are always normal, believe diseases progress, and my body has slowed down, not able to take care of conditions efficiently, that rely on medications to improve conditions or make matters worse. Medication side effects can cause insomnia/sleep disturbance.

I've had sinus issues all my life, but was able to rebound quickly, nowadays sinusitis is a nightmare

Hopefully pcp/specialty clinics can figure out, with upcoming appointments.

This got me curious so I exported OSCAR data for last 365 days and calculated average/median hours with mask on.

Average = 5 h:50 min
Median = 6:00 h
Max = 8 h:16 min

This shows I'm getting more sleep on average than sometimes perceived because (at least for me) there is a tendency to remember more of the nights between 4 and 5 hours when looking at individual days in the daily OSCAR view mode.

When I started CPAP in 2020 it seemed I was waking earlier (5 to 6 AM) than before that (had been using a custom oral appliance for 5 years). So I consulted a clinical sleep psychologist since I thought it was problem, but she concluded (and I agreed) it was not really insomnia since I could sometimes fall back to sleep. Was also taking clonazepam (Klonopin) during that time but stopped last year due to concerns about long term use. Have to admit it's not as easy to fall back to sleep without it, but just have accepted the situation since I want to take less medication.

The past 20 years I get about 5 hours of sleep. But late afternoon I take a nap for about 1.5 hrs. With or without CPAP this time is the same for me.

My sleep time is highly dependent on the weather. I sleep well 8+ hours in winter, but in summer it's difficult for me to get to sleep and I sleep anxiously, waking up often. I hate being overwhelmed and not getting enough sleep in the morning, so I started looking for some effective solution for my problem. On health and wellness sites such as Your Mind Your Body, for example. I have found some tricks that really work to help lower the temperature in the room and get pretty good sleep and fast falling asleep. Thanks to cold water bottles, but I would love to replace them with a water mattress bed. I dreamed of something like this since childhood.

Dariya wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:27 am

My sleep time is highly dependent on the weather. I sleep well 8+ hours in winter, but in summer it's difficult for me to get to sleep and I sleep anxiously, waking up often.

Believe, I'm the same way, specially during Tx summer heat. I sleep great during winter months. Should move to Antartica

Made an amazing discovery..... been paying more attention to sneezing/sleep.

Wednesday/Thursday sleep 0 AHI, 0 flags on MyAir/Oscar. Both nights I slept 7 hrs +

Friday/Saturday, I sneezed up a storm = congestion
Friday 4 hrs 50 min, AHI .8
Saturday I sleep 5 hrs 16 min, AHI .3

Very interesting, will share with sleep clinic/ENT
AJ

Update: After 3 years of testing, ct scans and medications..... I do not have sinusitis. I was wondering why no allergy meds/sprays worked. Now I know.

Had nasal scope Tuesday, nothing abnormal was detected, ENT had a huge monitor in front of me, believe it was 40 inch plus. Solution he sprayed in my nose is awful ! He explained nasal process, my nasal/throat passage was perfect. Entire process was a breeze, cept nasal solution.

Once scope was complete. He explained each CT scan image. I have no sinus abnormalities. He believes what's causing my sneezing fits is viral, causing congestion/eyes discomfort. Thank goodness, now after 3 years I know exactly what's going on. Been Covid tested 14 times negative. All blood labs normal, including wbc. But Lymphocyte slighted elevated. I'm fighting another virus

Wow ! what a journey. So, allergies/sinusitis is not causing my congestion/sleep difficulty/fatigue, it's viral infections. Viral infections causes me to sleep horrible. Any other time, no sleep difficulty.