Dreamstation vrs Airsense

babydinosnoreless · Post by **babydinosnoreless** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:44 am

GearChange wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:15 pm

My statement is based on the observation that Philips bases their entire recall on the fact that "Ozone gas interaction with the sound abating foam, causes the disintegration of this particular composite, resulting in foam particles being inhaled", so why on earth would one need to worry, if they have never used Ozone sanitizers to sanitize their machine?..this is also the advise that RTs have been giving out to their patients.
Also this is the same reason that Resmed is VOIDING the warranty on their machines, if Ozone sanitizers are used to sanitize them.

If that is what you tell yourself to get you through the night.

Then there is reality:

"Philips uses PE-PUR foam in many CPAP machines, BiPAP devices, and ventilators to reduce sound and vibration. However, the company has recalled thousands of products after discovering the polyester-based polyurethane sound abatement foam can break down and potentially enter the device’s airway. When this happens, chemicals or debris from the foam may be inhaled or swallowed, causing a health risk.[1]

On June 30th, 2021, safety communication was released by the FDA about particular Philips Respironics CPAP machines, BiPAP machines, and ventilators regarding the safety concerns due to the PE-PUR foam"

https://www.sleepadvisor.org/philips-re ... -machines/

Now I don't have a dog in this fight as I use resmed and always have but in researching for a friend who has a dream station, I am completely convinced this is not about the ozone machine. There is a real and dangerous problem with the respironics. The FDA did not tell resmed to recall their products even tho many have used ozone cleaners with them as well.

GearChange · Post by **GearChange** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:07 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:26 pm

GearChange wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:15 pm
My statement is based on the observation that Philips bases their entire recall on the fact that "Ozone gas interaction with the sound abating foam, causes the disintegration of this particular composite, resulting in foam particles being inhaled", so why on earth would one need to worry, if they have never used Ozone sanitizers to sanitize their machine?..this is also the advise that RTs have been giving out to their patients.
Just because RTs (or yourself) gives out the advice to "just keep using the machine if you never used the ozone device" doesn't make it smart advice.

RTs are often idiots anyway.

are you saying the Philips recall is not based on the fact that Ozone causes the degradation of the sound abating foam inside which then releases chemicals and particles which may be inhaled or are you just of the opinion that Respiratory therapists are idiots, because this is Philips's position and as far as anyone can tell, their position is that Ozone causes the foam to breakup, both physically and chemically: (excerpt from recall)

'...........The notification informs customers and users of potential impacts on patient health and clinical use related to this issue. Possible health risks include exposure to degraded sound abatement foam, for example caused by unapproved cleaning methods such as ozone and exposure to chemical emissions from the foam material. High heat and humidity may also contribute..." (both "heat and humidity" are also driven by some of these sanitizers) .

https://www.usa.philips.com/healthcare/ ... src-update

GrumpyHere · Post by **GrumpyHere** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:06 am

GearChange wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:07 am

are you saying the Philips recall is not based on the fact that Ozone causes the degradation of the sound abating foam

<SNIP>

'...........The notification informs customers and users of potential impacts on patient health and clinical use related to this issue. Possible health risks include exposure to degraded sound abatement foam, for example caused by unapproved cleaning methods such as ozone and exposure to chemical emissions from the foam material. High heat and humidity may also contribute

https://www.usa.philips.com/healthcare/ ... src-update

Philips is not insisting that ozone is the ONLY cause for the degradation, as you are advocating.

Otherwise heat and humidity wouldn't be listed.

Not only did they do a lousy job handling the initial situation.
It is possible that the replacement units also face a future recall.

Talk about incompetence.

If they can't do basic dumb hardware, why would one trust their software with far more complexity.

Back in Nov '21 ...

GrumpyHere wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:45 pm
The following article was in my news feed.

TLTR: Silicone foam used for replacement program now suspect. FDA requests more testing. Phillips Respironics has known about the foam problems since at least 2008.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-a ... e-machines

https://www.fda.gov/media/154099/download

Following the initial recall, Philips Respironics developed a plan to repair the polyester-based polyurethane foam in the recalled CPAP and BiPAP devices with a different, silicone-based foam. The FDA initially approved this plan based, in part, on testing the company provided to the FDA in June on the new foam.

However, during the manufacturing facility inspection, the FDA obtained additional information, not previously available to the agency, regarding the silicone-based foam used in a singular, similar device marketed outside the U.S., which failed one safety test for the release of certain chemicals of concern, called volatile organic compounds (VOCs). Similar testing provided by Philips Respironics to the FDA on devices authorized for marketing in the U.S. had demonstrated acceptable results. The FDA has requested that Philips Respironics retain an independent laboratory to perform additional testing to determine what, if any, potential safety risks may be posed to patients by the silicone-based foam.

The FDA is aware that patients have already received devices with silicone-based foam as part of the repair and replace program. At this time, the agency does not have sufficient information to conclude whether the silicone-based foam being used in the repaired devices poses any risk to patients in the U.S.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:57 am

Philips is not insisting that ozone is the ONLY cause for the degradation, as you are advocating.

Otherwise heat and humidity wouldn't be listed

I agree.

If Philips was only worried about the effects of Ozone cleaners they could just as easily recalled only those units.
"if you used ozone cleaners xxxxxx " kind of warning.
But they didn't limit the recall to just people who used the ozone devices.
They pretty much recalled everything since the first System One model which was released late 2009.

They had a problem with the foam even without ozone maybe accelerating the degradation.

chunkyfrog · Post by **chunkyfrog** » Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:13 pm

Apparently, P-R ignored the problem as long as they could get away with it.
When the secret could no longer be hidden--then they let the feces fly.
Sadly, the fans were inside all their machines for several model years.
Some who blindly promote P-R may do so because
THEY OWN STOCK.

Dreamstation vrs Airsense

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