Mouth breather needs advice

I'm a relatively new CPAP user, just started last summer after a sleep test and diagnosis of apnea, and I'm still trying to find the right solution. My problem is that I'm a very strongly determined mouth breather, apparently.

I tried some full face masks at first, but had big problems getting a decent seal. I also didn't get much reduction in my number of interruptions/night - before CPAP I was in the mid 20s for an AHI, and with a full face mask that's only down to about 10. My wife tells me that when I'm using the full masks, I still have regular visible breathing pauses, so that's not a good solution.

Tried some nasal pillow masks, but I couldn't make myself sleep with my mouth closed, so those didn't work well (I forget the models, but the type that just fit under the nose - or project slightly up into it). Moved on to an Airsense N20, the small nose-covering mask, and that works better but with caveats. To keep my mouth closed, I have both a fabric chinstrap and tape. Lots of tape. I have to tape my mouth up so much that it's physically painful to remove the tape in the morning, and the adhesives are doing a number on my skin.

But I can normally get < 1 AHI with the tape and the nose mask, and I feel better those next mornings like someone who's never used CPAP just wouldn't understand!

So, I need advice. How to either keep my mouth more shut or find maybe one of the hybrid masks that will give me a seal and let me breathe mouth or nose as my body wants to from night to night.

Are there specific brands of tape that will be more gentle, or a certain chinstrap that may work better?

What do folks think about a hybrid mask for my situation? (and which specific masks, if that's an answer)

Thanks for bearing with me on a first posting!

harleymads wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:50 pm

Thanks for bearing with me on a first posting!

welcome to the zoo!

lots of people here use tape. but as a full bearded fellow, i find that hard to do. here's how i roll instead-
https://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic.php? ... s#p1086296

i modified jay's system somewhat to fit my own noggin, but my method is pretty close to his.

just something for you to consider.

good luck!

Ask for 3M micropore tape - your pharmacy should have it some place, if not in the expected one. It comes off easily, no redness and doesn't hurt.

Julie wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:49 pm

Ask for 3M micropore tape - your pharmacy should have it some place, if not in the expected one. It comes off easily, no redness and doesn't hurt.

Do, however, peel it off slowly, because it can, and will remove skin if yanked.

palerider wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:20 pm

. . .
Do, however, peel it off slowly, because it can, and will remove skin if yanked.

And that kind of smarts . . .

Julie wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:49 pm

Ask for 3M micropore tape - your pharmacy should have it some place, if not in the expected one. It comes off easily, no redness and doesn't hurt.

That's several recommendations, thanks. I'll find some of that micropore - I've been using 3M medipore, which is obviously not the same thing. It takes a lot of tape to keep me from blowing through it, though.

harleymads wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:50 pm

[snip]
So, I need advice. How to either keep my mouth more shut or find maybe one of the hybrid masks that will give me a seal and let me breathe mouth or nose as my body wants to from night to night.
[snip]

Can’t help you with tape as I’m only a year into using CPAP and never used it, but I’ll share my experience. I started out with a FFM and used it solely for about 3 months with pretty good results. By “results” I don’t mean AHI, but rather how I slept and felt when awake. I decided to try other masks and used a FFM with nasal cushions, but didn’t like them as I have a rather large proboscis and the holes didn’t line up regardless of mask size.

Eventually I went to a nasal pillow and over 6+ months have learned to use a cervical collar and to also plant my tongue against the roof of my mouth. During the early days I could see leaks being reduced over time as I got better at keeping my mouth shut. I still use the collar but have noticed I need it less and less. Hopefully one day I can stop using it, but for now it is a good safety blanket.

One observation around AHI is that it is an illusive target. I’ve found for me if I focus on sleep quality AHI tends to decrease over time. Causation and/or correlation? I don’t know, just that it works for me.

Hang in and keep trying, you’ll find what works for you.

zonker wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:06 pm

welcome to the zoo!

lots of people here use tape. but as a full bearded fellow, i find that hard to do. here's how i roll instead-
https://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic.php? ... s#p1086296

i modified jay's system somewhat to fit my own noggin, but my method is pretty close to his.

just something for you to consider.

good luck!

A scunci chin strap? Interesting, and certainly worth a try! I know they have those at every drug store, so I'll pick up a set.

Thanks!

Jlfinkels wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:44 pm

harleymads wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:50 pm

[snip]
So, I need advice. How to either keep my mouth more shut or find maybe one of the hybrid masks that will give me a seal and let me breathe mouth or nose as my body wants to from night to night.
[snip]

Can’t help you with tape as I’m only a year into using CPAP and never used it, but I’ll share my experience. I started out with a FFM and used it solely for about 3 months with pretty good results. By “results” I don’t mean AHI, but rather how I slept and felt when awake. I decided to try other masks and used a FFM with nasal cushions, but didn’t like them as I have a rather large proboscis and the holes didn’t line up regardless of mask size.

Eventually I went to a nasal pillow and over 6+ months have learned to use a cervical collar and to also plant my tongue against the roof of my mouth. During the early days I could see leaks being reduced over time as I got better at keeping my mouth shut. I still use the collar but have noticed I need it less and less. Hopefully one day I can stop using it, but for now it is a good safety blanket.

One observation around AHI is that it is an illusive target. I’ve found for me if I focus on sleep quality AHI tends to decrease over time. Causation and/or correlation? I don’t know, just that it works for me.

Hang in and keep trying, you’ll find what works for you.

I'm getting some good ideas here already, things I hadn't come up with, so it's good. I use AHI as a reference point, not so much a target, I agree on that, but since I use just the one machine the AHI generally lines up as a relative measure of how I should expect to feel - if it's higher than my average, I'm probably more tired, if lower, I should feel better. Usually works. The "smiley/frowny" face on the nightly stats is also actually a pretty good indicator - I guess that measures mostly leakage? Not sure how it's determined.

All suggestions and ideas are welcome, they keep me thinking and give me options!

I use the tape below. I started with the 1-inch wide size. I had to double up on it, overlapping top to bottom to get more coverage and to stop air from escaping. Then I tried the 2-inch wide size. It seems thicker, and I don't have to double up with it. It can be removed and replaced easily. Both sizes stick well and do not cause any discomfort or pulling when removed, nor do they leave any residue. I can also use the same piece for numerous days, so it is less expensive than it appears to be. I like it very well. The links are to the smallest package of each size, in order to save money if you don't like it. They offer larger packages which are cheaper for the size and are what I order now.

Good luck finding what works best for you!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BPL5G2C?ps ... ct_details
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BJGK47F?re ... tails&th=1

I saw this a while ago.

https://youtu.be/1SlOLPR81X4

harleymads wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:46 pm

A scunci chin strap? Interesting, and certainly worth a try! I know they have those at every drug store, so I'll pick up a set.

Thanks!

please do let us know what you decide upon. i really like the scunci method and always like to know how it works for others.

continued good luck!