Most popular FFM for blind buy?

cyberdreamer · Post by **cyberdreamer** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:11 pm

Hi everyone,

First of all, thanks for all the help so far!

I'm thinking about trying a FFM since I still have some leaks, struggle to stay awake in the morning when trying to study and my AHI varies between 2 and 4. What mask would you recommend for a blind buy? I saw that the F20 and Mirage Quattro have high reviews in the Brazilian online shop where I buy most of my things. Also, F30 isn't available here.

I'm currently using the Swift FX Nano and my mouth seems to open at night sometimes. I tried the Dreamwear Nasal (lost money

), but it leaked and it is noisy. I didn't like the Resmed N20 either (although the Small size wasn't available at the local shop, so wrong sizing might be the cause. Thankfully, I could return this one).

Is it likely that I'll have dry mouth issues with a FFM?

Thanks again!

PS: My original post in the forum: viewtopic/t176447/Cpap-since-2016-but-s ... -help.html

Auntducky59 · Post by **Auntducky59** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:43 pm

well, I WAS going to suggest F30 as that is MY favorite FF model until I read that it is not available where you are. For Resmed, The F20 is a good FF mask. Some people like the F10. For Phillips, have you tried the Dreamwear Full face version? or Amaraview is another option. Some people like Fisher & Paykal Simplus. It depends on whether you like your nose covered or not & whether you want a forehead strap or not. The best way to try your next mask is to go to CPAP.com or any other CPAP supplier website and read the specs & reviews.

gv280z · Post by **gv280z** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:51 pm

I use an ffm with humidifier and have dry mouth most every morning to one degree or another, whether it's on fixed or adaptive, on the level 3 setting, water full in the tank...though its far less than what it would be without the humidifier. So, YES you'll have a little dry mouth at times, I see it as just a basic characteristic of cpap.

From what I can figure, most all the full face masks (certainly all the ones I've had) all have the same basic setup on the headgear and connecting the cushion to the frame. You don't need to see the cushion to know how to attach to the frame, you can feel it, same with the magnetic clips (which now it seems to be pretty standard) you can feel how to attach them without issue. The Dreamwear is a bit different than the others where the air tubes plug into the sides of the mask but it's nothing you couldn't easily learn to manipulate and get the orientation figured out. I don't really see any difference in ability to articulate mask and headgear for the Blind vs Sighted. We all already manipulate the straps and mask in the dark while half asleep anyway. I sometimes need a bit of an adjustment on the straps to tighten a little while wearing during sleep in the middle of the night without ever getting out of bed or turning on a light.

So as far as that goes, I'd say you're on a pretty even keel with the rest of us dipping your toe in the waters of cpap mask debate insanity.

ragtopcircus · Post by **ragtopcircus** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:55 am

I read “blind buy” as ordering without trying first, not vision-impaired.

The three main hybrid-style masks are the F30, Amara View, and DreamWear Full Face (though it isn’t really FF). Of those three, the only one I could use was the F30, but it is a little finicky. My RT told me that most patients who choose the Dreamwear FF end up returning it.

Hybrid masks have the advantage of not covering your nose, only the nostril openings. This allows the CPAP pressure to help open your nose, which a full face mask can’t do (same pressure inside and outside your nose).

However, the geometry of a hybrid is tricky to get right.

For full face, it’s hard to go wrong with an Airfit F20.

Some do prefer the foam seal on the Airtouch version, but for me the foam spreads enough to put pressure on the soft part of my nose, closing it, and the large also presses on my eye. Even if you do end up preferring the Airtouch, I think the Airfit F20 will work at least reasonably well for most who want FF. Replacement cushions are only 20 USD or so on Amazon, so it’s easy to go up or down in size or switch between Airfit and Airtouch.

I like the F30. The F20 is my backup in case I get a bad cold. However, I’ve switched backed to pillows (P30i) the last few days, because nothing else opens my sinuses as well.

gv280z · Post by **gv280z** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:31 am

DOH! I thought it said "Guy"......."Blind Guy" seriously.

TropicalDiver · Post by **TropicalDiver** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:08 am

Personally,the F20. The frame accepts both the memory foam an silicone cushions. I would try both.

gv280z · Post by **gv280z** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:08 am

HUGE apologies for my earlier post gaff, really embarrasing...guess I'm the Blind Guy now, eh? Hah!

A Blind Buy of a mask in my opinion is really tough to hit the mark. It'll take some serious forum searching to find a consensus from one person to another that feels the same way about the same mask. Personally I use F30 now exclusively, where I used to rotate between the Amara View, Dreamwear Full and the F30. I grew tired of the other two and donated to a friend, but at one time I was totally inlove with the Amara View, then I don't know what, something changed and then I could never use again. I never hated the Dreamwear, nothing really threw me off of it, it was always just kinda mediocre for me.

Don't even get me started on the F20. But, I know a lot of people here swear by and really love that mask. It was my starter mask and I couldn't run away from it quick enough.

You mentioned that you couldn't get access to the F30 (I'm not trying to push you there, only mention because you stated you couldn't get it.) Well, if you can recieve Amazon shipping at your place in Brazil, then you might wanna check this link: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=resmed+f30&ref=nb_sb_noss_1 They have all three pieces there that you need. Though if you do decide this will work, I'd actually opt out the the Resmed headgear and go with the Amara View Headgear (only, not whole setup) it's much more comfortable, works great. I'm about to order another for myself.

If you check around, you might be able to find someone willing to donate you a mask they're no longer using to help minimize your risk.

cyberdreamer · Post by **cyberdreamer** » Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:41 pm

Auntducky59 wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:43 pm
well, I WAS going to suggest F30 as that is MY favorite FF model until I read that it is not available where you are. For Resmed, The F20 is a good FF mask. Some people like the F10. For Phillips, have you tried the Dreamwear Full face version? or Amaraview is another option. Some people like Fisher & Paykal Simplus. It depends on whether you like your nose covered or not & whether you want a forehead strap or not. The best way to try your next mask is to go to CPAP.com or any other CPAP supplier website and read the specs & reviews.

No, I never tried a FFM so far. I see, I'll look into the models you mentioned. Thank you!

gv280z wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:51 pm
I use an ffm with humidifier and have dry mouth most every morning to one degree or another, whether it's on fixed or adaptive, on the level 3 setting, water full in the tank...though its far less than what it would be without the humidifier. So, YES you'll have a little dry mouth at times, I see it as just a basic characteristic of cpap.

From what I can figure, most all the full face masks (certainly all the ones I've had) all have the same basic setup on the headgear and connecting the cushion to the frame. You don't need to see the cushion to know how to attach to the frame, you can feel it, same with the magnetic clips (which now it seems to be pretty standard) you can feel how to attach them without issue. The Dreamwear is a bit different than the others where the air tubes plug into the sides of the mask but it's nothing you couldn't easily learn to manipulate and get the orientation figured out. I don't really see any difference in ability to articulate mask and headgear for the Blind vs Sighted. We all already manipulate the straps and mask in the dark while half asleep anyway. I sometimes need a bit of an adjustment on the straps to tighten a little while wearing during sleep in the middle of the night without ever getting out of bed or turning on a light.

So as far as that goes, I'd say you're on a pretty even keel with the rest of us dipping your toe in the waters of cpap mask debate insanity.

I see. At present, the occasional dryness after I opened my mouth a few times at night is not really bothersome, so I guess I'd probably get used to it with a FFM.

gv280z wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:08 am
HUGE apologies for my earlier post gaff, really embarrasing...guess I'm the Blind Guy now, eh? Hah!

A Blind Buy of a mask in my opinion is really tough to hit the mark. It'll take some serious forum searching to find a consensus from one person to another that feels the same way about the same mask. Personally I use F30 now exclusively, where I used to rotate between the Amara View, Dreamwear Full and the F30. I grew tired of the other two and donated to a friend, but at one time I was totally inlove with the Amara View, then I don't know what, something changed and then I could never use again. I never hated the Dreamwear, nothing really threw me off of it, it was always just kinda mediocre for me.

Don't even get me started on the F20. But, I know a lot of people here swear by and really love that mask. It was my starter mask and I couldn't run away from it quick enough.

You mentioned that you couldn't get access to the F30 (I'm not trying to push you there, only mention because you stated you couldn't get it.) Well, if you can recieve Amazon shipping at your place in Brazil, then you might wanna check this link: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=resmed+f30&ref=nb_sb_noss_1 They have all three pieces there that you need. Though if you do decide this will work, I'd actually opt out the the Resmed headgear and go with the Amara View Headgear (only, not whole setup) it's much more comfortable, works great. I'm about to order another for myself.

If you check around, you might be able to find someone willing to donate you a mask they're no longer using to help minimize your risk.

Don't worry! I'm very thankful for your help. Maybe your first answer ends up being helpful for someone with poor vision reading this thread later.

What you said is exactly what I was noticing recently. The same mask is perfect for someone and absolute hell for someone else

So, it's really hard to pick one without trying.

I opened the link, but unfortunately the shipping is expensive. I think it may be wiser to get two of the FFM models available here than the F30 for the price. Nevertheless, I'll keep it in my mind as a possible option.

cyberdreamer · Post by **cyberdreamer** » Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:51 pm

ragtopcircus wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:55 am
I read “blind buy” as ordering without trying first, not vision-impaired.

The three main hybrid-style masks are the F30, Amara View, and DreamWear Full Face (though it isn’t really FF). Of those three, the only one I could use was the F30, but it is a little finicky. My RT told me that most patients who choose the Dreamwear FF end up returning it.

Hybrid masks have the advantage of not covering your nose, only the nostril openings. This allows the CPAP pressure to help open your nose, which a full face mask can’t do (same pressure inside and outside your nose).

However, the geometry of a hybrid is tricky to get right.

For full face, it’s hard to go wrong with an Airfit F20.

Some do prefer the foam seal on the Airtouch version, but for me the foam spreads enough to put pressure on the soft part of my nose, closing it, and the large also presses on my eye. Even if you do end up preferring the Airtouch, I think the Airfit F20 will work at least reasonably well for most who want FF. Replacement cushions are only 20 USD or so on Amazon, so it’s easy to go up or down in size or switch between Airfit and Airtouch.

I like the F30. The F20 is my backup in case I get a bad cold. However, I’ve switched backed to pillows (P30i) the last few days, because nothing else opens my sinuses as well.

Oh, I didn't know the difference between full face and hybrid mask. Maybe the hybrid is a better choice for me since I have a deviated septum.

I had ordered a medium sized Swift FX pillow to test with my Swift FX Nano headgear a few months ago, but the medium size is apparently small for me and goes inside my nose too much! I'll order the larger size to test whether I can get used to pillows. I believe this will help me decide between the FFM and Hybrid.

Thanks!

TropicalDiver wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:08 am
Personally,the F20. The frame accepts both the memory foam an silicone cushions. I would try both.

Thanks for the suggestion!

TropicalDiver · Post by **TropicalDiver** » Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:03 pm

I think hybrid vs traditional full face is, like all masks, a matter of preference and fit. A deviated septum should not matter either way. For example, some cannot tolerate the mask over the bridge of the nose; others (me) cannot tolerate upward pressure on the base of the nose.

Pugsy · Post by **Pugsy** » Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:57 pm

Actually the pressure going in the nose is the same no matter how it gets delivered.
The pressure going in the nose doesn't/can't hold the nose open. It's simply not high enough. Heck even at 20 cm the machine can't blow up a balloon. So physically the pressure doesn't/can't alter the air space inside the nose.
Now for some people the more direct pressure of maybe a nasal pillow mask might feel like it is holding the nose open but it isn't.

A hybrid mask is still a full face mask.
The requirements for a full face mask is that it covers both the mouth and nose in a manner that the circuit is complete and air in the airway can't leak out because of an incomplete sealed circuit.
A long time ago the term "hybrid" was given to masks that covered the nasal opening but not in the traditional over the bridge of the nose way. Just because it was different more than anything else.

Now ResMed has the F30 and Respironics has the DreamWear full face masks and they are probably technically "hybrids" because they don't have anything touching the bridge of the nose area...but it doesn't really matter.
A hybrid is still a full face mask because of what it covers and completes in the circuit.
When you look for these new masks they are in the full face mask section....and you will also find the old "hybrids" like the ResMed Liberty and Respcare's hybrid in the full face mask section of the online suppliers.
The "hybrid" section is mainly to denote the lack of the traditional over the bridge of the nose contact.

Deviated septum issues....if you can't move air because of the deviation then it doesn't matter if you are using a F20 traditional full face mask or the F30 hybrid like full face mask. The crooked nose is the problem and not how the nose is included in the sealed circuit.

ragtopcircus · Post by **ragtopcircus** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:56 am

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:57 pm
Actually the pressure going in the nose is the same no matter how it gets delivered.
The pressure going in the nose doesn't/can't hold the nose open. It's simply not high enough. Heck even at 20 cm the machine can't blow up a balloon. So physically the pressure doesn't/can't alter the air space inside the nose.
Now for some people the more direct pressure of maybe a nasal pillow mask might feel like it is holding the nose open but it isn't.

A hybrid mask is still a full face mask.
The requirements for a full face mask is that it covers both the mouth and nose in a manner that the circuit is complete and air in the airway can't leak out because of an incomplete sealed circuit.
A long time ago the term "hybrid" was given to masks that covered the nasal opening but not in the traditional over the bridge of the nose way. Just because it was different more than anything else.

Now ResMed has the F30 and Respironics has the DreamWear full face masks and they are probably technically "hybrids" because they don't have anything touching the bridge of the nose area...but it doesn't really matter.
A hybrid is still a full face mask because of what it covers and completes in the circuit.
When you look for these new masks they are in the full face mask section....and you will also find the old "hybrids" like the ResMed Liberty and Respcare's hybrid in the full face mask section of the online suppliers.
The "hybrid" section is mainly to denote the lack of the traditional over the bridge of the nose contact.

Deviated septum issues....if you can't move air because of the deviation then it doesn't matter if you are using a F20 traditional full face mask or the F30 hybrid like full face mask. The crooked nose is the problem and not how the nose is included in the sealed circuit.

I will agree that it doesn't make any difference if your nose is blocked by a cold.

HOWEVER, if the blockage is due to narrowing in the outer part of your nose, such that "breath right" strips or anything like that helps, then full face vs hybrid/nasal/pillows absolutely matters. The pressure differential (xPAP vs atmospheric) works EXACTLY the same way in your outer nose as it does in your throat. As soon as I turn on the air, the soft part of my nose expands noticeably, and the passages open right up, just like they do with a "breath right" or nasal dilator. That does not happen with a full face mask. So yes, the type of mask can make a HUGE difference with a deviated septum.

Caveat: under-nose, non-pillow styles are typically sort of V-shaped. If that V is too small, or the wrong angle (in other words, if it doesn't fit), it can narrow/pinch the nose more than the pressure differential can overcome.

cyberdreamer · Post by **cyberdreamer** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:03 pm

TropicalDiver wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:03 pm
I think hybrid vs traditional full face is, like all masks, a matter of preference and fit. A deviated septum should not matter either way. For example, some cannot tolerate the mask over the bridge of the nose; others (me) cannot tolerate upward pressure on the base of the nose.

Pugsy wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:57 pm
Actually the pressure going in the nose is the same no matter how it gets delivered.
The pressure going in the nose doesn't/can't hold the nose open. It's simply not high enough. Heck even at 20 cm the machine can't blow up a balloon. So physically the pressure doesn't/can't alter the air space inside the nose.
Now for some people the more direct pressure of maybe a nasal pillow mask might feel like it is holding the nose open but it isn't.

A hybrid mask is still a full face mask.
The requirements for a full face mask is that it covers both the mouth and nose in a manner that the circuit is complete and air in the airway can't leak out because of an incomplete sealed circuit.
A long time ago the term "hybrid" was given to masks that covered the nasal opening but not in the traditional over the bridge of the nose way. Just because it was different more than anything else.

Now ResMed has the F30 and Respironics has the DreamWear full face masks and they are probably technically "hybrids" because they don't have anything touching the bridge of the nose area...but it doesn't really matter.
A hybrid is still a full face mask because of what it covers and completes in the circuit.
When you look for these new masks they are in the full face mask section....and you will also find the old "hybrids" like the ResMed Liberty and Respcare's hybrid in the full face mask section of the online suppliers.
The "hybrid" section is mainly to denote the lack of the traditional over the bridge of the nose contact.

Deviated septum issues....if you can't move air because of the deviation then it doesn't matter if you are using a F20 traditional full face mask or the F30 hybrid like full face mask. The crooked nose is the problem and not how the nose is included in the sealed circuit.

ragtopcircus wrote: ↑
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:56 am
I will agree that it doesn't make any difference if your nose is blocked by a cold.

HOWEVER, if the blockage is due to narrowing in the outer part of your nose, such that "breath right" strips or anything like that helps, then full face vs hybrid/nasal/pillows absolutely matters. The pressure differential (xPAP vs atmospheric) works EXACTLY the same way in your outer nose as it does in your throat. As soon as I turn on the air, the soft part of my nose expands noticeably, and the passages open right up, just like they do with a "breath right" or nasal dilator. That does not happen with a full face mask. So yes, the type of mask can make a HUGE difference with a deviated septum.

Caveat: under-nose, non-pillow styles are typically sort of V-shaped. If that V is too small, or the wrong angle (in other words, if it doesn't fit), it can narrow/pinch the nose more than the pressure differential can overcome.

Thank you for the great answers on hybrid masks!

Most popular FFM for blind buy?

Most popular FFM for blind buy?

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Re: Most popular FFM for blind buy?

Re: Most popular FFM for blind buy?

Re: Most popular FFM for blind buy?

Re: Most popular FFM for blind buy?

Re: Most popular FFM for blind buy?

Re: Most popular FFM for blind buy?

Re: Most popular FFM for blind buy?

Re: Most popular FFM for blind buy?

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