I feel like I wake up right before REM sleep

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Insomaniac
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Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:00 am

I feel like I wake up right before REM sleep

Post by Insomaniac » Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:52 am

During REM sleep the muscles in the tongue and soft palate relax more than during normal non-REM sleep, could this mean that I'm getting too little pressure once I fall into REM and that I need to increase the pressure? I keep waking up less than two hours after falling asleep. I read that REM is supposed to occur 90 minutes after you fall asleep, so I think that this could be the problem. My prescribed pressure it set at 11, but I think I might need to bump it up to 12 or 13. Anyone else have this problem?

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Pugsy
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Re: I feel like I wake up right before REM sleep

Post by Pugsy » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:04 am

It's entirely possible to need more pressure during REM stage sleep...in fact it is quite common.
My OSA is worse in REM sleep (documented on the sleep study at about 5 times worse in REM than in non REM).
My pressure needs during REM sleep can vary widely and that's why I used apap mode when I was using apap machine. During non REM sleep I could get by with 10 to 11 cm pressure but during REM I would sometimes need up around 18 cm.

And yes...often I would see that big jump in pressure at about the 90 to 120 mark after sleep onset. I called it my "witching hour". It's easy to spot when in apap mode on my reports.

If you are using a fixed pressure...might consider opening up the range and going to apap mode to see where your pressure wants to go ...if it wants to go anywhere...and answer your own question quite easily.
Now if the pressure changes in apap mode bother your sleep...you have to decide how best to address the issues...wake ups from pressure changes or wake ups from REM events that aren't prevented.
Sometimes compromises have to be made. First though...check to see if your machine even wants to go higher during probable REM sleep.

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ChicagoGranny
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Re: I feel like I wake up right before REM sleep

Post by ChicagoGranny » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:26 am

Insomaniac wrote:I think I might need to bump it up to 12 or 13
Instead of guessing, why not use Sleepyhead to see exactly what is going on?
"It's not the number of breaths we take, it's the number of moments that take our breath away."

Cuando cuentes cuentos, cuenta cuántas cuentos cuentas.

Insomaniac
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Re: I feel like I wake up right before REM sleep

Post by Insomaniac » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:18 pm

http://imgur.com/a/CxdZK

Here's a link to the sleepyhead results.
The top one is at 11 cm pressure and the bottom is when I put it at 16.2 cm

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Pugsy
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Re: I feel like I wake up right before REM sleep

Post by Pugsy » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:30 pm

Nothing in between?
It's pretty obvious you don't need 16.2 all the time.
Are you sticking in fixed pressures in hopes that it will help with the wake ups?
It's very possible that the insomnia is totally unrelated to cpap therapy or sleep apnea and thus not fixable with cpap. Sometimes bad sleep is just bad sleep and if it isn't caused by sleep apnea there's not much chance of effective cpap therapy fixing it.
Doesn't mean you shouldn't try to rule out all possible culprits though.

_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier
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I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.

Insomaniac
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Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:00 am

Re: I feel like I wake up right before REM sleep

Post by Insomaniac » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:52 pm

Last night I took the mask off during sleep and was able to sleep without waking up. I don't think it's insomnia that's causing me to wake up, it's the CPAP.

Here are two other pressure settings. One I put at 12.6 and the other at 14.8

http://imgur.com/a/LxG52

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Chevie
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Re: I feel like I wake up right before REM sleep

Post by Chevie » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:10 pm

Insomaniac wrote: I don't think it's insomnia that's causing me to wake up, it's the CPAP.
If you hold onto to that thought hard enough, it will be true.


Insomaniac wrote:I keep waking up less than two hours after falling asleep.
This means nothing by itself. It's normal for anyone, CPAPer or not, to awaken several times during the night. The missing information is how long it took you to fall back to sleep.

If your goal is to hit the pillow and not know anything for eight hours, you are burdened with unrealistic expectations.

You were having very few obstructive events when you had the pressure set at 11. Why would you raise it? Smells of dial-wingin'.

Personally, I would set the machine on Auto with 9 minimum and 20 maximum. The machine will raise the pressure if, and only if, it senses the need for additional pressure.