Homeopathy and scientific studies

Faith in studies and scientific ones, at that, is too often misplaced. For two years I have been studying bio chemistry and nuclear energy. Both are only hobbies, as more intense study would require too much time. It is impossible to do any amateur studying without constantly being subjected to the culture of epidemiology.

Pharmaceuticals are still violating the basic tenants of science in their pursuit of patents. The scientific community has NO positive response to the manner in which their grants are awarded to independent laboratories. With the results of the studies going to the pharmaceuticals, the PHd who conducts the study never sees the results, nor the data, unless these are positive. In addition, no publication is possible unless permission is given by the pharmaceuticals. While keeping the data even after publication, the drug company seldom makes the data available for “peer reviewing”. Academia and third party labs are frustrated by this. Studies consequently are riddled with large “standard deviations” and confounding factors.

Drugs approved by the FDA are often used for servicing conditions not approved by the FDA. Epidemiologists estimate that well over 30% of drugs are being used for purpose not approved. This is legal. My daughter takes an anti-depressant for use as an anti-convulsant. Once a drug is approved by the FDA doctors can use it to service other conditions. There are no scientific studies for these uses.

Drug companies do have studies conducted without their participation. The most common ones are statins. The drug companies have only small studies while the third party labs have very large ones. No study shows that statins increase longevity. Large studies show that reducing cholesterol increases the risk of heart attack.

In radiation the field is as confused. No funds are yet made available to determine if low dose exposure is harmful or helpful. (BEIR VIII has passed congress but funding is not yet available) The evidence is that it strengthens the immune system at low dose. No one has found the level of dose where it becomes harmful. This is the case with Radon. And don’t let anyone tell you it is a “home issue”. It’s not. You have it in your distilled water. Of great interest is Edward Calabrese’s presentation at the Cato institute and McMaster University. He has found that the LNG theory is not only a fraud but that mice exposed to 650Rems thrive in the lab. 500rems will kill you if you absorb it in one dose.

Finally Edward Calabrese is saying that homeopathy is being studied by pharmaceuticals. Exactly what variation of this is under serious investigation is not known. With the secrecy involved we will likely never know because if any potion is made it will never be called homeopathy.

Try this. The year is 1925. All homes in the state you live in have high radon in it. That’s because in the 20’s homes had high radon concentrations because of the way they were built. You just invented the cigarette and you have finished doing a two year study. The results are that the cigarettes are good for you. They help with digestion and reduce anxiety. The lung cancer rates are 2.5 people per 100,000. After twenty years the lung cancer rate is 44 per 100,000. Sounds like the drug companies? Drug companies study everything for about 4 months to one year. Radon is no longer innocuous, it is now the big killer. How does any of this make sense and why do all the critics of drug companies, even ex-employees never get sued?

Looking for serious scientific study for homeopathic remedies is unrealistic. The variability at low dose would require large studies to mitigate the confounding factors.

That's all irrelevant. Even if you find out that last year's big pharma super drug is dangerous and causes heart attacks, that doesn't mean homeopathy works.

Failures of one thing doesn't mean that the alternatives are better. If you find out that there are some germs and chemicals in your tap water, that doesn't mean you should start drinking the water from the pond down the street.

archangle wrote:That's all irrelevant. Even if you find out that last year's big pharma super drug is dangerous and causes heart attacks, that doesn't mean homeopathy works.

Failures of one thing doesn't mean that the alternatives are better. If you find out that there are some germs and chemicals in your tap water, that doesn't mean you should start drinking the water from the pond down the street.

It’s very simple. Your faith in science and medicine, such as it is; is seriously misplaced. After reading you many post on these subjects I form the opinion that you believe in studies, or at least a large amount of them. THAT’S THE POINT. Your advocacy of them is influencing people. If you’re going to hold strong opinions about a subject and inflict it on others, you should at least study the studies. You are right “homeopathy” doesn’t work…..in general. There are a lot of dilutions that are hormethic (without the endless shaking) that do work. Some you need a prescription for! No drug company would call them “homeopathy”.

just curious .... what does the shaking do ??

The biggest question is why you created another Homeopathy thread? You should have just added to the other one you created.

Years ago, I was asked to interface a Homeopathy device to a computer. Very short outcome, I opened it to see what was inside (was told not to) and found that the Serial connector I was interfacing to was connected to nothing else in the box. Dr. Quack (as I started to call him from that point forward) was upset that I was discovering his secrets... I terminated the project immediately as a scam. The secret was it was all a sham and a year or two later he was arrested for a long list of fake medicine stuff...

Krelvin wrote:The biggest question is why you created another Homeopathy thread? You should have just added to the other one you created.

Years ago, I was asked to interface a Homeopathy device to a computer. Very short outcome, I opened it to see what was inside (was told not to) and found that the Serial connector I was interfacing to was connected to nothing else in the box. Dr. Quack (as I started to call him from that point forward) was upset that I was discovering his secrets... I terminated the project immediately as a scam. The secret was it was all a sham and a year or two later he was arrested for a long list of fake medicine stuff...

I agree with you! Homeopathy is a sham. So is most of pharmacology. All this forum is about is tests and test, test, test, test....., and graphs, and test, and test. It main stream medicine. Why would 9cmh20 not work for one month and then start working. Your tissues are still the same! No one knows, but everyone accepts it as normal. I know I haven’t tried all homeopathy remedies. I know I haven’t studied all studies. But obviously you guys all have! WOW.

I started a new thread....what's your problem with that! Tell me!

Pesser wrote:I agree with you! Homeopathy is a sham.

We agree on that

So is most of pharmacology. All this forum is about is tests and test, test, test, test....., and graphs, and test, and test. It main stream medicine. Why would 9cmh20 not work for one month and then start working. Your tissues are still the same! No one knows, but everyone accepts it as normal.

I don't agree with you on that.

I have successfully used CPAP for more than 9 years now. It works. I had to beg for the first test because I knew I had a problem and it showed I was right. It also in the same night showed me what life could be with treatment.

It got me an RX and a in the neighborhood area pressure suggestion. Actually it was a bit too high because the tested me on my back and I don't sleep on my back. So I started out with a limited machine because few would take the pressures I was prescribed for to start with. In a couple week, I got my Dr to issue a lower RX when I convinced them that I never sleep on my back and always on my side or stomach. This got me a more normal machine with full data.

Full data (using Encore Basic at the time) showed me what was happening when I slept. The manuals taught me what the settings were and how to turn off the stupid Leak Alarm which caused more problems than it was worth. I was able to tune my settings over time to the point I stopped needing to look any more.

It took me a good solid 3 months to figure it out including how to sleep on my stomach again so I could actually sleep. After that 3 months, I went past the 2yr warranty on the machine before it died. I got a new machine and used it for the next 6 years.

Recently I had to do it all over to get a newer machine, sleep study sucked but not that big of a deal. Same outcome no surprise. New machine is better than the one before.

I still have off nights because there is more to sleep than OSA. There is the environment, what you ate, cats, calls in the middle of the night about servers down, people next door, kids, someone driving their corvette into the side of the house or just plain not a good night. There is no one cause and anyone who thinks there is is not looking at the whole picture.

I use my machine without fail, I believe and know that it works for me and that helps me function in life. I know what happens when I don't or can't use it, quickly in less than 3 days.

As for pharmacology, I would not exist if it weren't for a good Cardiologist and a series of medications that keep me alive that I take every day. Without him or them, I would not be here. I would have ceased to exist in my mid-20's because that is how long people with that condition live normally. Over the past several years I have developed CHF which is very hard to deal with and limits my mobility. If it weren't for a great job, I most likely would be on disability as a result. But I have a great job, I am lucky and still able to work way too many hours and be happy doing it.

BTW CHF causes problems with sleep as well, just one of those non OSA things that life throws at you.

I know I haven’t tried all homeopathy remedies. I know I haven’t studied all studies. But obviously you guys all have! WOW.

I don't waste my time with it and don't bother reading circular references to how good something is without any true science peer review behind it.

I started a new thread....what's your problem with that! Tell me!

Other than being like others who create lots of endless threads about the same things, nothing. If the forum were moderated the moderator most likely would have merged the two into one. but it isn't ... end of story.

Krelvin wrote:

Pesser wrote:I agree with you! Homeopathy is a sham.

We agree on that

So is most of pharmacology. All this forum is about is tests and test, test, test, test....., and graphs, and test, and test. It main stream medicine. Why would 9cmh20 not work for one month and then start working. Your tissues are still the same! No one knows, but everyone accepts it as normal.

I don't agree with you on that.

I have successfully used CPAP for more than 9 years now. It works. I had to beg for the first test because I knew I had a problem and it showed I was right. It also in the same night showed me what life could be with treatment.

It got me an RX and a in the neighborhood area pressure suggestion. Actually it was a bit too high because the tested me on my back and I don't sleep on my back. So I started out with a limited machine because few would take the pressures I was prescribed for to start with. In a couple week, I got my Dr to issue a lower RX when I convinced them that I never sleep on my back and always on my side or stomach. This got me a more normal machine with full data.

Full data (using Encore Basic at the time) showed me what was happening when I slept. The manuals taught me what the settings were and how to turn off the stupid Leak Alarm which caused more problems than it was worth. I was able to tune my settings over time to the point I stopped needing to look any more.

It took me a good solid 3 months to figure it out including how to sleep on my stomach again so I could actually sleep. After that 3 months, I went past the 2yr warranty on the machine before it died. I got a new machine and used it for the next 6 years.

Recently I had to do it all over to get a newer machine, sleep study sucked but not that big of a deal. Same outcome no surprise. New machine is better than the one before.

I still have off nights because there is more to sleep than OSA. There is the environment, what you ate, cats, calls in the middle of the night about servers down, people next door, kids, someone driving their corvette into the side of the house or just plain not a good night. There is no one cause and anyone who thinks there is is not looking at the whole picture.

I use my machine without fail, I believe and know that it works for me and that helps me function in life. I know what happens when I don't or can't use it, quickly in less than 3 days.

As for pharmacology, I would not exist if it weren't for a good Cardiologist and a series of medications that keep me alive that I take every day. Without him or them, I would not be here. I would have ceased to exist in my mid-20's because that is how long people with that condition live normally. Over the past several years I have developed CHF which is very hard to deal with and limits my mobility. If it weren't for a great job, I most likely would be on disability as a result. But I have a great job, I am lucky and still able to work way too many hours and be happy doing it.

BTW CHF causes problems with sleep as well, just one of those non OSA things that life throws at you.

I know I haven’t tried all homeopathy remedies. I know I haven’t studied all studies. But obviously you guys all have! WOW.

I don't waste my time with it and don't bother reading circular references to how good something is without any true science peer review behind it.

I started a new thread....what's your problem with that! Tell me!

Other than being like others who create lots of endless threads about the same things, nothing. If the forum were moderated the moderator most likely would have merged the two into one. but it isn't ... end of story.

You stated the following: “I don't waste my time with it and don't bother reading circular references to how good something is without any true science peer review behind it.”

This statement forces the reader to find the “circular references”. The likelihood is that you will win the argument because no one wants to find the “circular references”, this thread and the others are too long. Your other statement is this: “without any true science peer review behind it”. My statement was made in reference to pharmaceuticals (or at least I think it was). If you read my post then you already know that my studying indicates that it does not exist with pharmaceuticals. It does with third party labs. CPAP works because we have the experience and there are too many independent studies that prove it. Would CPAP still work without the studies? Is placebo involved and to what extent. (Why do people have to discontinue CPAP use for about a week before getting a follow-up sleep test?....could it be placebo?). If you can address this then people who take homeopathic treatments from say….naturopaths make the claim that placebo is at work. Then for them it does work!
Now I’m sure you can see why I started on a new thread.