Mask Noise on Inhalation

[DanceDiva26]

I have a brand new AutoSet For Her. Today is Day 3. For now, set on straight Cpap at 8cm. I also now have a Mirage FX nasal, Swift FX pillows, DreamWear, and AirFit P10. With ALL masks I experience big inhalation noise (lesser on exhale). I researched past posts on this issue and have tried all "fixes", except a cozy. I mentioned in an earlier post it "seems" as if a whale is slumbering beside me, wheezing ever so slightly, enough to let me know he's there just waaaaiting for me to inhale...and when I do, the whale wakes up, spouts up noisily, then returns to slight wheezing".

If this was my first experience ever with a CPap, I probably would have thought that this is just the way it is and it probably wouldn't have bothered me. I can sleep the deep sleep of the Just, or the sleep of the Damned, depending on what I did that day. <laughing> However, I've had the opportunity to use the PR Bi-Pap for several days, also set to straight CPap and it is a world apart.
I used the PR Bi-Pap last night, placed it even closer to my head....and I'd have to say...it was silent. No mask noise on inhalation/exhalation. I've read on the board that it tends to be the opposite experience.

Played with AutoSet this morning...re-creating conditions used with Bi-Pap. Placed it on a soft/firm pillow, same upholstered chair as the PR sat on, on top of mouse pad, placed hose so not touching anything, hung hose higher, moved machine further/closer/even lower and back away from ears. Attached an extra hose and moved it even further away. Checked seals and then strongly pushed in the humidifier, checked all connections and that filter was in place. STILL that whale kept up with me.
It's not from the machine itself...when I plug up the pillow holes while machine is running, the machine itself seems quiet(er). But gee, when I do inhale, the sound "seems" to come from BOTH my mask and machine. It's like someone is sleeping beside me, breathing lightly then takes a deep breath whenever I do. Creepy feeling when I KNOW no one is beside me. Driving me nuts if I allow myself to think about it.

I guess this is my first whine. <sigh> I fought hard to return my brick and get the AutoSet and so excited to use it. I've read..."luck of the draw" even with brand new machines. Do I try to get a different one from the DME? They were very good to me and I don't want to be a "difficult customer" (tho' I'm willing and able to go there if necessary)....or just accept and acclimate? White noise, TV turned on, earphones listening to a book, etc. etc. Again, it is the time frame nipping at my heels...if I don't do it very very soon, I may not be mobile/alert enough in the weeks after surgery to play the return game.

I remember way back when, I wanted a particular van/color so badly, I bought it even though it didn't have power seats... just couldn't wait for another one to come on the lot. Thought I'd just get acclimated and get on with it. Well, every time, every single time I reached down under the seat to pull seat forward (hubby much taller than me).....especially when pregnant, or wearing a long puffy coat over a thick sweater, or even after gorging myself at a buffet......I ruefully thought to myself....Geeeze.....I shouldn't have accepted this one in my excitement to have it NOW.

Adding to it is that I was getting .4 AHI on PR Bi-Pap and 0% leaks. On AutoSet I got 7.2 AHI and 18L leak. I know, just could've been a more fitful night, but still. Different brands, different algorithms of measurement?

I read posts a few years back from someone named Hamster, having the same issues. It could've been me writing it. Same exact thing.

Anything else to try? Any thoughts?

[Pugsy]

Did you use the brick at all?
If so, did you have these inhale noises with it?
I wonder if you have a lemon.

[DanceDiva26]

Pugsy....nope. Never even plugged in the brick. I will call DME Monday and will ask to try another AutoSet For Her. . I know I don't want to spend 3-5 years thinking "what if" every time I put the mask on. And if it's pretty much the same....then <shrug>...I'll just turn TV on low w/ timer and get on with it. It's not like I haven't fallen asleep that way for many years. Just wanted to develop better sleep practices now. But hey...it's not like I have a choice to NOT use CPAP. I am just disappointed that there is a glitch to overcome with my AutoSet.

[Pugsy]

If the only variable is the machine itself...pressures, mode, mask, machine placement are the same with both machine and the Resmed is noticeably more annoying in noise levels I can't help but suspect a lemon.
I would definitely want to try another machine though and then decide what I wanted to do.

[DanceDiva26]

Okay...in a desperate experiment, I piled a bunch of thick towels on machine. (I know, I know...where are those ventilation holes anyway)....The over-all noise is muted but still there. The mask noise is better...but still feels as if some "other" is breathing a half beat longer after me, and a smidgen louder than me. Threw off the towels and Big Mr. Whale is right back in my ears. Yet the machine itself isn't noisy.

If this was a Toy Story movie, I would be imagining my machine heaving For Her sides in and out and smirking at me to "keep with the dance beat Diva"! Sooo I've done everything I've learned and spent too much time on it.....

Pugsy, you're right, it may be a lemon 'cuz I'm not by nature a nit-picky person. You've been like a "big sister" to me on this board (whether you're younger or older than me) and when you've encouraged me to do something, I've listened and had good results. Soooo...I'm going to haul my hurtin' hip on Monday to DME. It is possible that this DME got a bad lot from the manufacturer. Will update later.

[robysue]

DanceDiva26,

You write:

I mentioned in an earlier post it "seems" as if a whale is slumbering beside me, wheezing ever so slightly, enough to let me know he's there just waaaaiting for me to inhale...and when I do, the whale wakes up, spouts up noisily, then returns to slight wheezing".

All I can say is that I'm glad I was NOT drinking coffee when I read this. I would have snorted it all over.

You also write:

However, I've had the opportunity to use the PR Bi-Pap for several days, also set to straight CPap and it is a world apart.
I used the PR Bi-Pap last night, placed it even closer to my head....and I'd have to say...it was silent. No mask noise on inhalation/exhalation.

Pardon my asking an obvious question, but What happened to the PR BiPAP you were happily using? And is it a System One or DreamStation BiPAP?

Seems to me that if you could keep that BiPAP you'd be a much happier camper.

I'll add: Would it be possible to swap the AutoSet for Her out for a PR APAP of the same model line?

[DanceDiva26]

Hi RobySue!

Thanks for the response. Well...glad you didn't snort a half beat after the whale wheezed...thus sounding like an all too familiar Syncopated Symphony of Sleep Sufferers! Lol...

I've just started my CPAP therapy journey and am a total newbie. In earlier posts, I explained that the PR System One Bi-Pap Pro Bi-Flex is my son's machine....2 years old but never used at all. Refuses to do so. When I received a "brick" from my DME, I fought to get the AutoSet for Her. While waiting for that process to happen, with Pugsy's help and encouragement, I learned to set my son's machine to my stats. With oxygen desats at 57% during REM I wanted to get a head start on helping that prior to my upcoming surgery.

Yes, I can keep using the PR Bi-Pap since son isn't using it but I pray that MY CPap usage will, by example, encourage him to at least try it. Hopefully he comes around....and I'll be left with my Wheezy Whale.

And no, can't swap it out for a PR as this DME only deals with ResMed. Don't care to change, as this DME has been good to me in my short dealings with them, and the other choice DME was clueless. By most accounts on the board, the ResMed machines are supposedly even quieter than the PR. Aaargh...why is my experience so opposite?? And besides, I like the AutoSet For Her . It's so pretty! <snappin' my gum and twirlin' my ponytail....> J/K...I learned I wanted a full efficacy data machine, more control, eventually learning SleepyHead.

I've had a relatively easy time adjusting to CPap in such a short time, and I'm just disappointed that the only snafu is with the long-awaited machine. So I'll test another For Her machine on Monday. Wish me luck!

[palerider]

By most accounts on the board, the ResMed machines are supposedly even quieter than the PR. Aaargh...why is my experience so opposite??

so, there's a number of things that might be at play. you might have a defective machine, it might not be assembled right.

I don't have an air10, I've got (several) s9 machines, and they're nearly silent, and the air10 is supposed to be a bit quieter.

I do sometimes hear a faint moan from the s9 machines, depending on pressure and breathing. I can't hear it if the central air is running because that masks the sound.

things I'd try: a different hose, changing EPR, a bit different pressure, making sure the water tank is fully inserted (I've heard reports of that causing problems) making sure the air pipe that goes through the back is properly inserted (page 26 of the clinical manual).

I once had a respironics elbow that went on the output of the machine to angle the hose... I found that with that in the airflow, it caused a whistling sound in the hose that varied based on how I was breathing, taking the elbow off made the machine much quieter.... when I stuck my finger inside the elbow, it wasn't smooth, it had sharp plastic edges, and those disturbed the air and led to harmonics and strange noises.

hopefully something in all this will help.

[DanceDiva26]

Hi PaleRider!

Thank you for your response. I tried everything you said. Yes, there was a plastic coupler/elbow on the back (smooth) but I switched to a regular rubber 22m hose end. Stuck it in tightly. Turned EPR off and on from levels 1-3. Raised the pressure. Changed mode for CPAP to AutoSet then to For Her. Pushed in water chamber firmly. Pipe through the back looks normal, tho' I wouldn't know what to compare it to.

Big Wheezy Whale was still there. When I have my mask on, it is hard to isolate exactly WHERE the sound is coming from. It seems as if it's coming from both the machine and the mask.

So, one last experiment. I corralled Hubby into putting on a mask. Sized and fitted him. Turned on machine. OMG, surprised that I'm not bruised and cut...like trying to give an angry cat a bath. He couldn't jump far enough away. But after he sat still, it gave me an opportunity to actually isolate the origin of the sound.

IT IS THE MACHINE!!When nobody's inhaling, the machine is quiet. But everytime Hubby inhaled, so did the machine's volume of droning/wheezing. Like a fan switched from Low to Turbo very quickly and then back down. Like an older computer struggling to keep up when loading a big program. When I asked Hubby to take a deeeep breath, the machine noise raised to such a pitch that it almost hit a high whine. That sealed it for me. It IS the machine itself. It wasn't conducted noise through the hose. It wasn't vibration of parts. It wasn't the masks. It wasn't my mind playing tricks on me. That machine was in fact breathing! Lol....

If that was Hubby's machine (and he needs one more than I do, but that's another campaign)..... and "I" had to sleep in the same room....we just wouldn't. I couldn't take it.

I just remembered the DME ordered this specially for me. I hope they received more for stock, but not from the same lot. I can wait. I'll use the silent PR Bi-Pap and smiiiile all the while!

Thanks for all the suggestions, PaleRider!

[palerider]

So, one last experiment. I corralled Hubby into putting on a mask. Sized and fitted him. Turned on machine. OMG, surprised that I'm not bruised and cut...like trying to give an angry cat a bath. He couldn't jump far enough away. But after he sat still, it gave me an opportunity to actually isolate the origin of the sound.

congratulations on taming the beast and emerging unscathed!

IT IS THE MACHINE!!When nobody's inhaling, the machine is quiet. But everytime Hubby inhaled, so did the machine's volume of droning/wheezing. Like a fan switched from Low to Turbo very quickly and then back down. Like an older computer struggling to keep up when loading a big program. When I asked Hubby to take a deeeep breath, the machine noise raised to such a pitch that it almost hit a high whine. That sealed it for me. It IS the machine itself. It wasn't conducted noise through the hose. It wasn't vibration of parts. It wasn't the masks. It wasn't my mind playing tricks on me. That machine was in fact breathing! Lol....

well, unless your hearing is exceptionally acute, (do you eavesdrop on the whispered conversations of neighbors down the street? do mouse farts thunder in your ears?) then I'd say that your machine has a defect.

while it is correct that the motor speed does increase and decrease while you're breathing (it speeds up to maintain pressure when you inhale, and likewise slows down to avoid overpressure when you exhale, even without EPR turned on) it should be doing that in a near silent manner... the only time I can hear the motor in my (presumably slightly noisier s9) is when I press my ear up against it.

Take it back and request another machine... find a quiet room there, and check it's sound.

[puglover333]

My machine does the exact same thing! I've had it for almost three weeks now and just noticed it the other night. Normally I run an extra fan in the room that provides some white noise. I got cold during the night and turned off the fan. In the quiet room, it was very noticeable. Noise from the machine when breathing in- enough that it bothered me trying to fall back asleep.

I'm a little nuts and already have a backup machine (bought from Craigslist for a great price). A regular autoset, not the autoset for her. I put that one together and it seemed just as noisy.

Since they both did it, I figured it was normal machine noise. Now I'm not so sure.

[DanceDiva26]

Hi Puglover!

Welcome from one Newbie to another! Sorry to hear that your machine seems to be doing the same thing as mine. My Wheezy Whale feels like a guy. Does your whale feel like a Gaspy Gal? Perhaps they could meet, marry, and swim off together into the Great Blue Sea......and leave us both the heck alone??? <laughing>

I'm glad your noise was able to be blocked out by the white noise of a fan, but I know you don't want to have it on ALL the time especially as the weather cools. I experimented with the AutoSet again last night by turning on the TV and increasing the volume in increments. Even an old re-run of the "Fresh Prince of Bel-Air" (lol) couldn't drown out Mr. Whale's inhalations till I reached 20-25% volume!! Too much! Now, I do fall asleep rather easily and I did so again with the AutoSet, so things are ..."do-able". But I too don't want to REQUIRE having the TV on just to block it out. Definitely far too much noise for a quiet room. PaleRider and others have said they have to put their ear up against their machine in order to hear noise. I'm jealous!

Puglover, since your AutoSet For Her is only 3 weeks old and mine is only 4 days old, I wonder if they're from the same "noisy batch" from ResMed? That doesn't account for your Craigslist AutoSet tho', unless it too was relatively new and first owner wanted to get rid of it due to the same kind of noise? It's frustrating since the majority of folks on this board have had wonderful experiences with this machine, noise and otherwise.

I will try to test another For Her at my DME tomorrow....but if they have no more in stock, I'll test a new regular AutoSet to compare. But will ask them to re-order another For Her so I can listen to the actual machine I will be using.
And so starts the Return Game again. <sigh> Are you going to try to exchange yours? Update here, okay?

[Pugsy]

I had to laugh when I read your description of your husband's initial response to wearing the mask and using the machine.
You got further with him than I have ever got with my husband who is the biggest baby in the whole world about it and refuses to even put a nasal pillow up against his nostrils to feel what it is like...never mind actually wearing anything and actually feeling the air. He simply refuses to even touch the "damn thing" (his words not mine).
I think he thinks if he touches it that it will put a spell on him and he might need to actually use "the damn thing".
He has a real claustrophobia problem. God help me if he should ever develop OSA and need all this stuff.

[DanceDiva26]

Oh, Pugsy...I'm sure if your hubby ever develops OSA that you will be an excellent guide, mentor and helpmate. Me, not so much. Admittedly I was not as patient with him as I could have been last night since I had a GOAL of isolating that noise right NOW.

Last night's trial looked like a Three Stooges skit cut in with an episode of domestic violence on "Cops". He: "Are you trying to kill me??" His arms flailing to rip off "the damn thing"....and me blocking like a martial arts fighter. Me: Jump around all you want, but do not RUN with the mask on 'cuz it'll pull the machine off the table and break it." Paid 100% by insurance...you want us to pay out-of-pocket for another one so soon?"

Although I've had a relatively easy time, I can understand others' problems with it. Hubby had real terror in his eyes. Stuff cotton up someone's nose and tape their mouth shut and tell them to calm down till I take 2 seconds to turn on machine......suuuuure....easy peasy..! NOT! And when machine did turn on, he resembled a bobble-head doll on steroids trying to shake it off. I held his hands...Ohhh...I am sooo not a Good Wifey! <laughing> But I do appreciate his reluctant willingness to help!

Slow paced multiple de-sensitization steps as I've read on the board is key. I read an excellent post on that topic a while ago. Can't remember who wrote it.

[Pugsy]

Oh...I am not so sure I could get hubby on a machine should he ever need one (thank God I see no evidence of OSA when he sleeps). He won't even touch the nasal pillow with his fingers...really...once he asked me what they felt like and I handed him one and he wouldn't even touch it... He will move my machine to help me pack but that's the extent of his touching anything related to the machine or mask. In over 7 years of therapy he has never ever touched the mask...big baby.

My own brother I know for sure has OSA and I couldn't get him converted. Refuses flat out to do anything about it.
Slept long enough of my machine for me to know he has it (along with the pulse ox alarm at the hospital going off all night long when he was in the hospital because of colon surgery).
We had World War III over his refusal. Of course it doesn't help that he is a bi-polar loony tune and a mean one at that. I won't EVER mention it to him again...if he kills himself so be it...if he has a stroke and needs diapers..he can go to a nursing home for care...I won't be be doing it. I learned a long time ago that I can't save everyone and that it does no one any good if I lose my own mind trying to save the world.