OT: ketogenic diet?

[nmevan]

wondering…anybody here tried a ketogenic diet?
how did it go?
What did you eat?

[Julie]

You should not do it except under your MD's care (or a knowledgable dietician) as it really can be dangerous. It's hard to do at the beginning, then gets easier.

[Janknitz]

Yes, I do a mostly ketogenic diet. But not just ketogenic, also Paleo/Primal in that I eat only REAL WHOLE foods, from natural sources (organic, grass fed and finished, wild caught, pastured, etc). Some people do ketogenic diets with "frankenfood"--lots of artificial sweeteners, unnatural fats, etc. Not me.

I've been on it for 3 years, and I've lost 72 lbs. But more importantly, my health has improved immeasurably. I don't have blood sugar swings multiple times a day (now I NEVER have them), I feel great, full of energy, rarely get sick, no more shortness of breath, very rarely have asthma symptoms, and the best thing ever is I am OUT of the constant pain I was in (dropping all grains did this). My cholesterol and other lab markers are very good. This is not a diet for me, this is my life. I would never go back to eating "normally" because all those symptoms would come back with it. This IS my normal.

The trick is to focus on what I CAN eat, not what I can't. It's not "boo hoo, I can't have bread, pasta, cake, cookies, lots of fruit and potatoes". Instead, I think "WOW, I can have TONS of butter on my veggies (non starchy veggies), real CREAM in my coffee, any meat or fish I want (I don't eat pork or shellfish for religious reasons) with yummy sauces, as many eggs as I want, nuts, some cheese (I don't do a lot of dairy). etc."

I eat VERY well, I don't count calories. I love the food I eat. I missed carbs terribly at first, but now I would have a hard time eating them if I had to. I have recently been adding back in some "resistant starches" but these are not treated as carbs in the body--I measure my blood glucose and level of ketosis regularly to monitor that. These are supposed to be healthful for your gut biome and I am seeing some subtle improvements by adding these in, without disturbing my level of ketosis.

Some people go into really deep ketosis, eating up to 90% of their daily caloric intake in fat (yes, mostly saturated). I personally find that a little extreme, but OTOH, my weight loss is VERY slow at this point (menopause plays a role, I'm told it's a miracle that I'm able to maintain my weightloss in menopause) while these extreme keto people (mostly younger men) lose a ton of weight. I personally believe that you cannot get adequate levels of micronutrients without enough veggies--our bodies do not utilize supplements as well as natural foods. (See The Wahls Protocol by Terry Wahls MD). I'm in this mostly for health and for the long haul.

If you're interested in trying a ketogenic diet there are some good resources out there, depending on what level of fat you want to eat. Atkins induction and the Eades' Protein Power diets are ketogenic for most--watch that you don't overdo the protein.

If you are a heavy carb eater to begin with, I highly suggest that you bring your carb levels down SLOWLY, because otherwise you can feel pretty rotten. Be sure to read some book that includes a ketogenic diet before plunging in, so you understand what's happening and how to deal with the initial side effects:

Atkins New Diet Revolution by Atkins
Protein Power by Michael and Mary Dan Eades
The Art and Science of Low Carb Living and/or The Art and Science of Low Carb Performance by Vollek and Phinney

Jimmy Moore is coming out with a new book called Keto Clarity next month, I think.

And if you google "Ketogenic Diet" and "Fat Fast" you'll come up with a bunch of books with suggestions for very high fat, low to no carb foods.

But again, take it from experience, don't try to go Keto until you've been low carb for a while first. It's VERY uncomfortable unless you've already switched from "sugar burning" to "fat burning".

And if you try it, DON'T forget to drink a LOT of water and eat plenty of salt and potassium rich foods (avocados are great). It's a huge challenge for your body to dump all the stored glycogen and switch to fat burning mode.

It's NOT dangerous if done carefully--the guides above will help you. Most doctors know NOTHING about ketosis, they often mix it up with the very dangerous state of ketoacidosis (not the same!) and dietitians have to spout the party line--you've heard that advice already.

[Janknitz]

I should add that in the Wahls Protocol book I mentioned above, her "Wahls Paleo Plus" diet is ketogenic and includes 6 cups of various vegetables daily. Most of the others include very little vegetable.

[SleepWrangler]

wondering…anybody here tried a ketogenic diet?
how did it go?
What did you eat?

I followed up in your "juicing" thread too. Weened myself from mostly raw vegan to animal and fat based meal plans over the course of six weeks. Didn't try for ketosis right away but let my daily meal planning switch over as I replenished food stores in my fridge and pantry. I probably started entering ketosis in April. Noticed quick drop in weight even though I had not started to monitor calories or portions. Weight control that took months and aggressive exercise plan with high carbohydrate diet was trivially easy with high fat diet. Hunger and food craving at night doesn't happen any more .... this could be as a result of successful CPAP therapy too. I don't know.

Started serious ketosis management in May to see what I could do for blood glucose. I've dropped to a morning fasting glucose of 99 mg/dl (5.4 mmol/l) from somewhere in the neighborhood of 129 mg/dl (7.1 mmol/l) with previous diet. Almost always had a liver dump at night. That appears to have vanished. Postprandial measurements are 97 mg/dl (5.3 mmol/l) to 103 mg/dl (5.7 mmol/l). I don't spike after meals and have measured 101 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/l) as little as 45 minutes after breakfast. For comparison, I've never measured below 108 mg/dl (6.0 mmol/l) in previous 20 years of diabetes management.

I want to use an extreme diet ratio of 5% Carbs, 15% Protein, and 80% fat for a few months then have a blood test. I've already met my goals in terms of weight and BG. Now I want some confirmation from my doctor (in two months). I use ketosis sticks once a week to check for diabetic acidosis (ketoacidosis).

Biggest change is loading up on fatty foods like animal protein, avocado, mayonnaise, cheese, butter, full fat cream, and with extreme low carbohydrates missing berries, cucumber, onions, mushrooms, asparagus, bell pepper, and Brussels sprouts (you know, the whole foods you'd find at Costco). Really miss apples, pineapple, oranges, pears, plums, ...

This meal plan is higher in protein than some of my more recent meals where I use more mayonnaise and butter. Not giant quantities either, just a couple more tablespoons of each and slightly less protein. I'll bring back cucumber, onions, mushrooms, asparagus, bell pepper, and Brussels sprouts when I figure out how to maintain weight and BG. Will probably not bring much fruit back except apple, and even then in limited quantity.

[Intercostaldrama]

My six year old son with uncontrollable epileptic seizures was placed on a ketogenic diet for its ability to totally control seizures. It did, it reduced them from 70 a day to none. Unfortunately it was an impossible diet to sustain and he lost so much weight he looked like a skeleton.

Three meals a day each consisting of a porridge plate of fractionated coconut oil with a handful of lettuce leaves floating on top. Impossible. Reg.

[PartlyCloudy]

I eat a high protein/lowish carb diet. It's called the Specific Carbohydrate Diet. I have Crohn's and that's what this diet is for. It's almost identical to paleo. Weight falls off, you're never hungry, health improves immeasurably, pain reduced significantly. I'm actually back on it for life now after gaining back the 65 lbs I lost on it several years ago (I decided to have a cheat and that turned into 3 years of cheating fulltime). I've been feeling like garbage since I went off it too. CPAP has helped, but I've had to face the fact that I also need to eat well.

Yesterday is a pretty typical day for me:

Breakfast: 3 eggs scrambled in butter, 2 pieces of bacon, coffee with honey.
Lunch: Asparagus with baked salmon and chicken (skin on) with a salad and oil and vinegar dressing.
Dinner: Salmon with baked acorn squash with lots of butter and sauted green beans.
Dessert: Homemade jello made with watered down grape juice and bananas and cooked down apples and pears mixed in.

As you can see this isn't low carb but significantly lower than my normal diet. The weight falls off.

[Janknitz]

Darn, I should have said this yesterday, but there's a FREE online Diabetes Summit going on through May 16. Go to http://www.thediabetessummit.com to access it.

Yesterday was ketogenic diet day, but you can only access today's speakers for free, you'd have to buy the package to listen to Friday's presentations.

[Julie]

HOW do you live without chocolate?! Seriously!

[BlackSpinner]

HOW do you live without chocolate?! Seriously!

Why should one - it comes from a tree so it is a bean (or a nut or a fruit) and it does actually do good things for you - you just need to find real chocolate, not the Hersey, sugar with a hint of chocolate flavour, crap.

[Janknitz]

Who says I live without chocolate?

I love having VERY small amounts of very dark chocolate--72% and above. When chocolate is that dark a little goes a long way. Sometimes I even have bakers chocolate (NO sugar).

There is a little sugar in dark chocolate, but it's not much, so I don't stress over it.

[Julie]

I like the very dark chocolate, but a) it really isn't that sweet after all, and b) it does give me (or adds to) acidic gastritis, which is otherwise under fairly good (but not perfect) control on diet alone.

[BlackSpinner]

What is really good is chicken cooked in chocolate chilli sauce. That was one of the traditional ways to use chocolate before Europeans thought about adding milk and sugar.

[College3girls]

I am using the Atkins diet, and really concentrate on my veggies and lean proteins. Atkins is not about eating a dozen eggs and a pound of bacon for breakfast, but neither are you hungry, at least I never was. You also do not have to rely on Atkin's products if you choose not to do so. It's the easiest and most effective diet I've ever done, and believe me, I've tried a bunch. I've lost 45 lbs, but still have sleep apnea which just proves that apnea isn't all about weight. I am no longer over-weight.

With Atkins, you start at a carb level of 20-25 net carbs per day. As you progress through the levels of Atkins, you start gradually adding back in carbs until you find your personal tolerable carb level, which is the point at which you neither gain nor lose weight. I've been able to add back in berries as a fruit source. Instead of pasta, I have spaghetti squash. I have "mock potatoes" made from cauliflower. Low Carb flax wraps provide me with a bread that is very versatile; it even makes great grilled cheese. I can't stand anything sweet now because I find it literally sickening. By using almond flour, flax meal, and coconut flour, I can make pancakes, blueberry muffins, and a hot fudge and natural peanut butter lava cake that my whole family liked. I do use stevia, a natural plant based sugar substitute. I do not feel deprived, or hungry. This is literally a diet for life. My pain level from RA is way down and I look and feel so much better.

I also went from an avid "raised on a dairy farm milk drinker" to almond milk, and I love it. I do eat all hard cheeses, and other unsweetened milk products. Once you get off the carbs and out of the carb withdrawal of a carbohydrate addict, you do not miss them at all. For me, all it took was two weeks to be committed to the diet.