Man dies from doing Nasal Irrigation -Neti Pot.

[purple]

http://www.fox8live.com/news/local/stor ... RFBCg.cspx

This is therapeutic for the fear monger in me.

[rested gal]

Hope archangle doesn't see that.

Not laughing, of course, because of what happened to the poor man in the article. That's sad.

[moresleep]

Thanks for posting this eye opener. I'm big on sinus rinses. Multiple daily sinus rinses were instrumental in treating my chronic sinus infection of many years and allowing CPAP to work. Now, I usually use one rinse every day or every other day, and often just with warm tap water to which I add a Neilmed salt/soda packet. Well, I'm going to stop using unboiled tap water. I'll probably use sterile water that I then bring to a boil on stove or in microwave before allowing to cool. The article doesn't say whether this poor guy's tap water was from a well or from a treated city water supply; but, can't be too careful with something like this.

I've also forwarded the article to friends who I think may be using sinus rinses...

[Vader]

Wow, that's tragic.

Boiled or not, I would never use tap water for a neti pot. Home distilled only for me.

[ThomasMcKean]

Wow, that's tragic.

Boiled or not, I would never use tap water for a neti pot. Home distilled only for me.

I also have home distilled. Love it.

[ameriken]

Seems to be a popular subject here.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=67351&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=amoeba

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=67363&p=626893&hili ... ba#p626893

[Mike6977]

Boiled or not, I would never use tap water for a neti pot. Home distilled only for me.

Hi Vader.

I think that's an excellent suggestion, especially for a CPAP board.

After all, what does a CPAP humidier do except aerosolize the water you put in it . . . then blow that misted water into your sinuses for six to eight hours straight?

[moresleep]

Thanks, Ameriken, I just checked out those threads, which had a lot of useful information. I guess in terms of attacting my attention, the title of this one was more effective, given that I am a nasal rinser.

The article at http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/w ... d=14328749 suggests the man's tap water did come from the city water supply, but that the amoeba was found only in the pipes of his home:

"The third case, in Louisiana, was more unusual. It was a young man whose death in June was traced to the tap water he used in a device called a neti pot. It's a small teapot-shaped container used to rinse out the nose and sinuses with salt water to relieve allergies, colds and sinus trouble.
Health officials later found the amoeba in the home's water system. The problem was confined to the house; it wasn't found in city water samples, said Dr. Raoult Ratard, Louisiana's state epidemiologist. The young man, who was only identified as in his 20s and from southeast Louisiana, had not been swimming nor been in contact with surface water, Ratard added. He said only sterile, distilled, or boiled water should be used in neti pots."

So, where did the beastie originate? Is it common enough in nature that it can "spontaneously" appear in any hospitable water environment? If so, I would be careful even about distilled water that sits around in the home before use.

There also seems to be some question as to how long you would have to boil the water in order to be sure of killing the amoeba. I wonder if microwaving the water is more effective? Seems like the microwaves might heat the creature up from within, as it must be composed mostly of water?

[archangle]

Boiled or not, I would never use tap water for a neti pot. Home distilled only for me.

Hi Vader.

I think that's an excellent suggestion, especially for a CPAP board.

After all, what does a CPAP humidier do except aerosolize the water you put in it . . . then blow that misted water into your sinuses for six to eight hours straight?

No, it's not aerosolized or misted. It's evaporated. There's an enormous difference in terms of spreading bacteria.

Of course, I'd prefer there to be no bugs growing in my humidifier water. It's easy enough for me to use distilled. I've only used tap water occasionally while traveling and I didn't bring any and didn't have a chance to buy some.

In terms of the risks of Naegleria, there has been one diagnosed USA case of Nagleria infection from neti in recorded history. There have been a few more in other parts of the world, including India, where neti is more common, and (probably) the water used is less well treated.

I do Sinus Rinse with tap water because it's easier to get the right temperature. I don't do Sinus Rinse that often. If there's anything that bad in the tap water, I probably breathe it in aerosolized form when I shower anyway.

[LinkC]

No, it's not aerosolized or misted. It's evaporated. There's an enormous difference in terms of spreading bacteria.

Bravo! I was about to point that out, then saw your post. Spot on.

(I *was* somewhat surprised to see it was you who posted it... )

[archangle]

So, where did the beastie originate? Is it common enough in nature that it can "spontaneously" appear in any hospitable water environment? If so, I would be careful even about distilled water that sits around in the home before use.

There also seems to be some question as to how long you would have to boil the water in order to be sure of killing the amoeba. I wonder if microwaving the water is more effective? Seems like the microwaves might heat the creature up from within, as it must be composed mostly of water?

It's most common in hot, stagnant outdoor water. As for it growing in distilled water, if a Naegleria organism fell in there, it might live, but it couldn't reproduce much unless it finds nutrients to feed on, which should be hard to find in distilled water. In tap water, it might be a little easier to reproduce.

I don't think it's that common. People get water up their nose all the time from swimming or playing in natural outdoor water, and there are about 3 cases per year in the USA. It might be worse this year due to heat and drought. I don't think it floats around much in the air, unless you're spraying stale water around and making a mist. People don't seem to get it from breathing, except maybe from breathing around splashed dirty water.

Boiling probably kills it, but I haven't seen a clear statement that boiling is known to kill Naegleria. Boiling kills most, but not all, nasties. I have seen boiling recommended by "officials."

I wouldn't expect microwaving water to kill germs any better than boiling on a stove. Microwaves main effect on living organisms is heating them up. I don't think they'll heat the germs in water any more than they heat the water.

There are a lot worse things to worry about. Even a lot worse things to worry about with neti.

[moresleep]

Out of curiosity, what are those worse things to worry about with Neti? (I actually use a Neilmed squeeze bottle...)

Granted, there are only a few reported fatal cases of Naegleria a year in the United States. But, those are always of young kids who decline rapidly for no apparent (other) reason; so, the medical people are all over them looking for the cause. I wonder if Naegleria damage would even be noticed in the case of a middle-aged or elderly person who contracted the amoeba and died, but who also had a half-dozen known progressive diseases to blame? Also, infection might be a lot more prevalent than the death statistics, such as they are, indicate. That is, for all we know, many people contract the parasite but somehow fight it off, leaving them with unknown damage.

[purple]

While ameriken has probably already posted this: In the news stories of the previous individuals who died from this bug this year, they did not do a nasal irrigation. They got the bug while swimming.

Then we get to the interesting information from the experts. This bug is very common in waters in the warm waters of the south. While lots of individuals swim through these bugs, they do not get the disease because they did not get the bug into their sinus. I do not see a note saying whether the bug can get in through the eye itself.

Lots of incoming water pipes, inside homes, have bacteria, mold, fungus living in them that may not be clobbered by the residual Chlorine from a city water supply, even if it is supposed to be there. In my community the city water supply workers were busted for using those facilities to cook meth. I would not believe they did a lot of actual work right during that time. I would bet city water supply workers are at best, bored, maybe hung over.

If one blows some bacterias, or some spores up ones nose, then you might suffer all the rest of your life. Distilled water is cheaper than my suffering, and I am on Social Security with income so low I qualify for food stamps and lots of other public assistance. So I can plead poverty with lots of people.

The water in my humidifier gets high enough to create humidity, not hot enough to effectively sterilize or kill bugs.

But do what you want.

[archangle]

Out of curiosity, what are those worse things to worry about with Neti? (I actually use a Neilmed squeeze bottle...)

I'm thinking more common general bacteria, viruses, mold, fungus, etc. in tap water. There's probably some risk from simply washing away or diluting the mucous from your nasal tissues. I believe that the mucous is sort of your first line of defense from germs and things in the air you breathe. Maybe you'll rinse germs from one part of your nose into sinuses or your ears, etc.

I don't think there's a big risk either way, neti or no neti, distill or clean tap water.

If there's Naegleria in your neti water, it's dangerous. I just don't think Naegleria is likely to be there in clean tap water.

There are worse things to worry about than an alligator in the bathtub. If you find one, run, but I don't think most of us need to worry about finding one there.

[kempo]

I don't know how I lived to be this old. I can't tell ya how many times I have played in the warm waters of creeks, ponds, and lakes as a kid.