Shift Work & Sleep Apnea Procter & Gamble

[smith]

I work for a really good company - Procter & Gamble I have been working with them now for 13 years. Eight of those years have been on shifts 3 on 3 off 12hrs a day plus over time. Now I work straight days in a process engineer role that could at any point end and I can be sent back to shifts.

A recent visit to my Sleep Doctor we discussed what I do for a living. He suggested once I have to go back to shifts I might as well look for another job ( as if its that easy) Reason was due to my apnea and high blood pressure going back to shifts my therapy would not work for me. He said there was a very good chance my blood pressure numbers would become bad again even though I still am on meds for bp at 36 yrs of age. As well I would become once again sleep deprived. Last time this happened it took so long to figure out I ended up depressed which I feel for anyone who has or is dealing with that.
I am 6"2" 220 lbs. I excercise every day to try and keep that heart healthy. Now granted when I hired on with P&G they did not hire a Apnea worker. I as well did not ask to have this ...... Is there anyone else out there that works shifts and how does it work for you? I mean I suppose I can let human resources be aware of the situation if I do go back to shifts. It would be fine if I was just on days but not likely would they allow that. They could as we have plenty of people who have worked day jobs for like 10+ years and have not gone back to shifts if it meets the business need. Its like high school if your in the in crowd. But say I let human resources know of the potential warning from my doc. and I go back to shift I get sleep deprived then lose an arm in a piece of high speed running equipment, they would be liable right? yeah I know a little extreme but I would like to hear other stories on what you do or how you deal with shifts.

Thanks!
Jason

[chrisp]

Did your doc say anything about meds to help you sleep. Ambien was designed to help adjust to jet lag . Its the only sleep aid allowed by FAA. You must wait 24 hrs after taking to fly. If you only take it to adjust sleep pattern it shouldn't cause any dependency. I wouldn't take it every day. I used to fly USA to London or frankfurt return and this worked great with the layover. Just don't abuse it. Take as needed.

With the job market in the state its in I wouldn't quit. Can you shift swap to stay on a shift longer?

[smith]

I am not sure about the sleep pills that would be a question to ask him. I do know that anything that does not pretty much allow you to function normally is not the greatest for sleep apnea such as Ambien, Alcohol etc.

I don't know that they would allow me to stay on days and rotate that way. It's worth a try as I agree the job market is terrible. Not something I have heard of though. There are a couple others at work that have sleep apnea as well but no side effects of it such as high blood pressure that work shifts but they are pretty much tired all the time and are definatley not using their equipment every night as I do. Being 36 it has become a very life changing experience I have a 4 month old boy and a 3 year old boy and I am all about pro longing my life as much as possible. Apnea my doc says automatic 7 years off your life. Average male age 70 - 7 = 63 = shift work which is 26% less of loss lifetime.

So yeah I don't drink anymore and am very serious with the excercise. I also use my mask every freakin night! Always wake up around 12 - 2am for some reason though but i do go back to sleep.

Thanks for the advice

[Slinky]

It "might" be possible to get your doctor to write a letter stating your OSA is a disability that working varying shifts would intensify thereby "possibly" invoking ADOA. I would think tho that if they offered to accomodate you by keeping you on one shift, which they SHOULD be able to do w/o hardship to them, that you might have to be willing to work one of the less desirable shifts, i.e. 2nd shift (afternoons) or third shift (nights). But your doctor has to be willing to stick his neck out and provide such a letter. And stand by it. I seriously doubt you will be able to get or force them to put you consistently on day shift.

[smith]

Slinky -
Yes he offered to write one for a price with the advice that it never works. Since I guess other patients have had the same problem. He made a good point no matter what the studies show we as a society work 24hrs a day including the important jobs such as hospitals fireman & police. Therefore most jobs do not allow for the disability.

I should have asked what the price was and what would the body of the letter say? He told me to go talk to work about it and see what they would say. I just walked out feeling pretty wierd about the whole thing. Uh work this is what my doc says he wants to know if you'll take a letter. YEAH.....

[Slinky]

Sounds to me more like your doctor doesn't really want to get involved in writing any such letter. I've been down that route w/my husband's back. I don't have much use for a doctor not willing to "put his money where his mouth is" so to speak. There's more than one sleep doctor in this world. I would collect ALL my medical records from this sleep doctor, INCLUDING FOR SURE the full data summary reports w/condensed graphs, and if at all possible a CD of the full study, from every in-lab PSG, every data download, tech notes, etc. and I would find a GOOD sleep doctor w/the courage of his convictions and one willing to stand by and behind what he says. If you don't have full support of your doctor(s), you are going no where w/any disability.

A supporting letter from your cardiologist would be a good supplement to a letter from the sleep doctor.

[idamtnboy]

I work for a really good company - Procter & Gamble I have been working with them now for 13 years. Eight of those years have been on shifts 3 on 3 off 12hrs a day plus over time. Now I work straight days in a process engineer role that could at any point end and I can be sent back to shifts.

A recent visit to my Sleep Doctor we discussed what I do for a living. He suggested once I have to go back to shifts I might as well look for another job

Is returning to shift work a certainty, or a possibility? If a certainty, then in what kind of a time frame, a few weeks, a few months, or a few years from now? If it's a near term certainty, then continue exploring options for how to deal with it. Otherwise, my advice is for you to change your current focus to maximizing your current therapy benefits.

We all are inclined to fall into the trap of solving what-ifs that may never happen. If returning to shift work is only a possibility at this time, you have more vital things to think about, like your current health and exercise needs, and being the best father you can be. Go ahead and think about the issue, but don't expend precious energy trying to solve it now. I mean, how many things might change between now and when it happens? You may get promoted and all this becomes moot, or you may change doctors, or your plant may change HR managers, or heaven forbid, you encounter a more critical health issue.

So which is it, a certainty, or just a possibility? Act accordingly.

[sleepysmith]

IDAMTNBOY -

Very well put your are correct about the focus. It is a certaintey but at this point I do not know the time frame. Nor is it on the table. I was just looking for others that might work shifts to see how it is for them. Thank you for the feedback.

[BlackSpinner]

IDAMTNBOY -

Very well put your are correct about the focus. It is a certaintey but at this point I do not know the time frame. Nor is it on the table. I was just looking for others that might work shifts to see how it is for them. Thank you for the feedback.

One thing to remember is that your OSA is now being treated and will continue to be treated even if you are on shift work. That is a whole other ball game which you have not experienced. Add proper sleep hygiene to it and it well maybe not much of an issue at all. That said you need to start practising it immediately for it to be effective when needed. I would also get an extra machine to use for naps at work during those 3 off hours.
By preparing your self this way you will remove some of the "what if" stress from you now.
We have firefighters and army people in the field, who work crazier hours on this board who do the same thing - good sleep hygiene and extra machines in place for naps.

[bap40]

When my kids were little and would start with "what if" I would cut them off with the fact that we don't know what if, until it is!

[DadscreepyCPAPmask]

I am a police sergeant and have 20 yrs on the job. I work 12 hr shifts (HATE THEM!) and 9 months out of the year I am on 6PM to 6AM. I have high blood pressure (on meds) and was diagonsed with sleep apena and shift work sleep disorder in November of last year. I am 42 yrs old and I am very tired a lot of the time. I am in decent shape and try and hit the gym 2-3 times a week. I have 2 kids that I am actively involved with in different activities. According to the numbers, my CPAP therapy is very good. I average 0.3 to 1.5 AHI's every sleep duration. I have pretty much controlled my leaking problems, so I know I am getting the best therapy I can. The problem is, I usually feel "hung over". I am very much an early to bed early to rise kind of guy. I love working the dayshift the 3 months out of the year. I am like a different person! My sleep doc told me we can try sleeping meds, but I am trying not to do that. I was hoping CPAP therapy would be good enough. I know I have only been on CPAP for 3 months now, but I have a feeling its not going to solve my problem. I have decided just to deal with it the best I can. I have 8 years left until I am 50 yrs old and I plan on retiring as soon as then. 28 years of lousy shift rotation is enough for me! So, I feel your pain my friend

[pdean44]

I work a similiar shift . i work 2 each 12 hour days. then 2 each 12 hour nights. After that four days off. It is not a healthy way to live period. We were never meant to work like that and sleep like that. I have insomnia issues at times. Working for a major blue chip under constant down sizings. If you combine all those scenarios it is probably the worst scenario possible for sleeping health. My family likes a roof over their head and food on the table. you do what you have to do to survive and provide. I have a few mor eyears and i hope to retire from this place and learn to sleep again. I have been doing this shift for over 16 years. I dont have high blood pressure. I hope I dont have to add that to the list of the health issues i all ready have.

In this day and age you choices are limited more as to what your options are. you have to choose one that balances your quality of life and the needs of your family. Not an easy balancing act by any means.

I hope you can keep your current job. Save me a spot may need it one day.

[Lizistired]

I can't find in this thread what kind of rotation you are talking about. 3 days on, 3 days off. 12+ hours. How often do you switch from days to nights or is it all nights? I worked days, swings, mids, off for years and it sucked. But I don't know that your sleep doc can say for sure how it is going to affect you since you are using your machine. They can preach sleep hygiene all day long. I'm with idamtnboy, wait and see what happens.