sleep lab results,this forum and the Canadian health system

[cortez356]

First I want to thank the members of this forum that answered my few questions on Sleep Apnea and CPAP machines. One expects help from friends and family but I received mine from perfect strangers!! This is an unusual experience when it comes to something as personal as health. After an Oximetry test showed some apnea I went to a Sleep Clinic in Minnesota. They were so kind and caring. Turns out my apnea does not meet the standard for insurance companies nor does it meet the standard set by the therapists. I had 4 events per hour. The Dr. said he would not recommend CPAP therapy as often in borderline cases the therapy provides little value . I was thrilled. The Dr. did state that I should continue with my weight loss and recommended some things to help with a good sleep.

I am Canadian and not a big fan of our Socialized health care. It works great when you are healthy and only need a check up or the odd prescription. But G-d forbid you have a serious illness the system will likely fail you. I have had prior experiences with our children who needed a Gastro Dr. and told it would take 6 months or more. When the first child got ill he started to lose so much weight that at 6 ft 4 inches he was down to 160 lbs. My wife and I finally took him to the emergency and told the nurse that if they were not going to examine him we were just leaving Him in the ER room. I made enough noise that he finally was admitted and diagnosed. No one should go through that kind of stress. When our other child had similar problems it was almost a repeat. I told her Dr. I want the medical records right now as we are going to the USA for help. Within 4 hours she saw a gastro Dr. and the diagnosis was the same . That is a poor excuse for health care

After my oximetry test I contacted my Dr. about a sleep test. Here is how it works: There is only one clinic in my Province. The Dr. faxes over a request ( computers do not exist!!). If it is non emergency you might get an initial consult in 6 weeks. 10 would probably be more accurate. If you need the sleep test that will be another 3 or more weeks. Another 2 to 3 Weeks to meet with them and see the results. If you need a CPAP machine the only approved provider requires 2 to 3 weeks for an appointment. You get a trial machine for 3 months and then your own CPAP. Only one model available :FischerPaykal 234. So it would take up to 20 weeks to get a cheap POS machine. Part of that time before your sleep test would be full of worry. I am glad I chose the self pay option and for any Canadians that cannot afford to go that route do not bother with the slow Canadian system. Socialized medicine can work but Canada's system is horrible.

Bob

[cflame1]

Before you start lumping Canada in as a whole... admit one thing...

Each individual province has their own health care system... which means that what might not work in one province might work in another.

[Julie]

Cortez, I absolutely think you've maybe let one incident (with your child, which of course is more than understandable) really prejudice you. The system works very well for the vast majority of us and if you're in a bad place for health care, that's unfortunate, but don't blare to the world that our "socialized" medicine is anything close to as bad as you're calling it. That's just wrong and not terribly loyal, apart from anything else. You have no idea how lucky most of us feel to not be e.g. in the position millions of our friends to the south are in, with no insurance, or a minefield of financial horrors to deal with if anything goes wrong. It's easy to knock a system that maybe seems a bit slow at times, but consider if you were not well off, had a sick child and be ruined for life having to find care for them, but bankrupted in the process. We've been spoiled for so long we take our luck for granted!

[Sandra]

Wow, I have been quite frustrated by the wait time between suspecting sleep apnea to where I have finally started CPAP therapy, but have not had it so bad as you seem to have. What province are you in?

[cortez356]

Yes some provinces do have better health care. Did you know that Canada's health system is rated as number 30 or more in the world? Of course I based my post on my experiences. Should I base it on someone else's!!!! Until last year the wait time for A sleep clinic appointment was over 160 weeks. Do you think that is acceptable? Need a knee replacement: 6 months or more. Some people have waited more than a year. Need a non emergency MRI. The snow will be gone before you have an appointment. There are other horror stories. The shame of it all is that system could easily be the best in the world. Get rid of the enormous waste. Admit that preventative care is important for the younger generation but does little for the boomers and war babies who need operations. Open up the system to limited private clinics. A 2 tiered system would reduce wait times in the pubic system. The Canada health act calls for care in a timely fashion but in MOST provinces fails to meet that standard. Where I live the capital city has no Drs. taking new patients. Once in a while a new Dr. appears but they are "green" and in not time are gone. I have to stand by my comments. Most Canadians are afraid to admit that the system needs fixing as they are afraid of losing their "free" health care. It is not nor has it ever been free. 20 or 25 years ago it was a great system. Every year since it has deteriorated and could get so bad as to be useless. The provinces with NDP governments are the worst! Wake up.

Bob

[lbw]

I live in Ontario and am a nurse in the system. Yes unfortunately at times you may have to wait but at least you are entitled to health care. You can read here some of the challenges those without healthcare have. When I had my sleep study completed did not have to wait. Able to choose my own vendor who handled all the paperwork and ADP forms. Ontario covers 75% or 750$ of the machine. Not too bad if you ask me. It is unfortunate about your children. Hope you are happier in the US

[Julie]

Never mind.

[cobra4x4]

I'm from BC and although wait times can be lengthy for some things, Its a pretty good compromise all around.

My sleep study was in mid-January and I saw my respirologist 6 weeks later for the results, got the cpap machine 5 days later.

I started the whole process in late November 2009 with an overnight oximetery test and taking into account no studies were done for 2 weeks around christmas.

All in all I consider this an acceptable time frame with all our healthcare system provides. I used all the wait times to better educate myself about sleep apnea and the various equipment, options and peoples problems & solutions using cpap.

I believe I adjusted so well & quickly from taking the time to educate myself about cpap as well as from all the reading and support from this and other forums.

[andyw715]

I don't see how waiting 6 weeks is an "acceptable" compromise.

You stop breathing during the night, wake up 100s of times and have O2 desaturation to unlivable levels. Anyone of those nights during the 6 weeks could be the last.

I couldn't wait to get my cpap after my sleep study. I went to the DME that day and paid for a loaner one until mine came in.

[jonquiljo]

This all happens when countries think that "reform" is to purchase more health care for more people. The ultimate in this is single payer or government provided care. There are two problems with all of this ...

1.) No government can administer something as dynamic as health care without really screwing it up. Bureaucracy and health care do not mix.

2.) To achieve reform, you need to fix what is wrong with medicine and the medical system. That is tough because it requires real work - not just spending money. Medical care has become technology and information driven. Dr's are still trained to be robots and it just doesn't work. That's because we select to train people on the basis of their ability to memorize and not to think. I won't take this further except to say it needs tighter controls and be made more dynamic.

If not, we end up with overly-expensive care that will eventually bankrupt us all. The Europeans are moving away from all of this as they are getting into deeper debt than the Americans. "Red tape" is very expensive.

What we deal with on this site is a perfect example of a system that can fail more often than not. Someone has a sleep problem, goes to a sleep Dr. (if they are lucky to get a referral) and then go to a sleep lab. They spend thousands of dollars in testing to end up using what is really a $400-$500 machine (in the case of CPAP or APAP). They end up costing many more thousands getting re-tested and titrated when the whole process can be streamlined. All of this testing and money is not necessary to spend if the sleep Dr. did their job efficiently. If they see (and yes, in many cases they just can see) sleep apnea, either an in-home machine test or no test is adequate. Right now, they spend much of their time justifying their actions to insurers.

The people with more complex issues get further testing, but that is very obvious too after a point. Since modern day machines can report back what is happening with therapy - it is obvious is nothing is working within a very short time. So you avoid all the costs of an expensive and marked-up series of tests and marked up machine by making things simpler. Even if half the people got machines and didn't need or use them, you would still save a whole lot of money. But a good and un-distracted Dr. could even narrow that down quite a bit.

Then the really sick people are able to see Dr's because they have more free time and there is more money in the system to pay for visits - instead of red tape.

[BlackSpinner]

First I want to thank the members of this forum that answered my few questions on Sleep Apnea and CPAP machines. One expects help from friends and family but I received mine from perfect strangers!! This is an unusual experience when it comes to something as personal as health. After an Oximetry test showed some apnea I went to a Sleep Clinic in Minnesota. They were so kind and caring. Turns out my apnea does not meet the standard for insurance companies nor does it meet the standard set by the therapists. I had 4 events per hour. The Dr. said he would not recommend CPAP therapy as often in borderline cases the therapy provides little value . I was thrilled. The Dr. did state that I should continue with my weight loss and recommended some things to help with a good sleep.

I am Canadian and not a big fan of our Socialized health care. It works great when you are healthy and only need a check up or the odd prescription. But G-d forbid you have a serious illness the system will likely fail you. I have had prior experiences with our children who needed a Gastro Dr. and told it would take 6 months or more. When the first child got ill he started to lose so much weight that at 6 ft 4 inches he was down to 160 lbs. My wife and I finally took him to the emergency and told the nurse that if they were not going to examine him we were just leaving Him in the ER room. I made enough noise that he finally was admitted and diagnosed. No one should go through that kind of stress. When our other child had similar problems it was almost a repeat. I told her Dr. I want the medical records right now as we are going to the USA for help. Within 4 hours she saw a gastro Dr. and the diagnosis was the same . That is a poor excuse for health care

After my oximetry test I contacted my Dr. about a sleep test. Here is how it works: There is only one clinic in my Province. The Dr. faxes over a request ( computers do not exist!!). If it is non emergency you might get an initial consult in 6 weeks. 10 would probably be more accurate. If you need the sleep test that will be another 3 or more weeks. Another 2 to 3 Weeks to meet with them and see the results. If you need a CPAP machine the only approved provider requires 2 to 3 weeks for an appointment. You get a trial machine for 3 months and then your own CPAP. Only one model available :FischerPaykal 234. So it would take up to 20 weeks to get a cheap POS machine. Part of that time before your sleep test would be full of worry. I am glad I chose the self pay option and for any Canadians that cannot afford to go that route do not bother with the slow Canadian system. Socialized medicine can work but Canada's system is horrible.

Bob

All I can suggest is that you get INFORMED About how Your PROVINCES' health care works and get INVOLVED in the province's government and stop BITCHING about your problems with Canadian Health care which is administered provincially as some simple googling for simple minds will tell you.

So basically get off you bloody ass and do something after you actually know what the fuck you are talking about.

[Julie]

Forget it.

[cortez356]

Spinner and Julie: I think that your sleep apnea has affected your ability to read and think clearly. Julie: Here is part of what I wrote: "Need a non emergency MRI. The snow will be gone " Note I said NON EMERGENCY. Can you read English? Spinner: can you communicate without using 4 letter words. I am entitled to my opinion as you are to ours but I certainly did not attack anyone!! What is your problem. As for the Canada health system it is Federally mandated but provincially run. Where I live 44% of the provincial budget goes for health care. That was 40% just 5 years ago. It goes up every year and most a nalysts ( other than politicians) agree that within 10 years the system will collapse unless some fee for service or 2 tiered sytem becomes the norm . I thought that this forum was different ( still do) but it appears that at least 2 of the 30,000 have no common decency. Grow up.

[BlackSpinner]

Spinner and Julie: I think that your sleep apnea has affected your ability to read and think clearly. Julie: Here is part of what I wrote: "Need a non emergency MRI. The snow will be gone " Note I said NON EMERGENCY. Can you read English? Spinner: can you communicate without using 4 letter words. I am entitled to my opinion as you are to ours but I certainly did not attack anyone!! What is your problem. As for the Canada health system it is Federally mandated but provincially run. Where I live 44% of the provincial budget goes for health care. That was 40% just 5 years ago. It goes up every year and most a nalysts ( other than politicians) agree that within 10 years the system will collapse unless some fee for service or 2 tiered sytem becomes the norm . I thought that this forum was different ( still do) but it appears that at least 2 of the 30,000 have no common decency. Grow up.

Then stop bitching and do something about it - get involved in the politics - it is YOUR system and it is a hell of a lot better then before it was around - and yes I remember those days too. I am totally fed up with all the whining and bitching from people who think they know better but have no real solutions. Yes lucky you who can afford to make short cuts and quick trips to the US and then you lambaste people who are working with the resources they have. YES get off your ass and do SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE. I don't give a shit about the mealy mouth "common decency" which you didn't show to the over worked medical staff by the way. You grow up and become a CITIZEN.

[Bons]

Cortez,
I'd be really happy with an AHI of 4. I've been on treatment for 5 weeks now and my 7-day AHI is 6.2 My insurance company policy is that you have to have a diagnostic AHI over 5 in order to qualify for coverage (and the therapy has to bring it below 5, which is starting to get iffy with me).
Why are you convinced that you need CPAP? Perhaps you have a different sleep disorder than apnea.